166. Designing Client Behavior: How Your “Words” Create Better Projects (Interview with Ochre & Beige)
What if better clients and smoother projects start long before you ever begin designing?
In this episode, I sit down with Jaquilyn Edwards of Ochre & Beige to talk about how the words you use on your website, in consultations, and throughout your process, shape the kind of clients you attract and the experience you create. This conversation is all about being more intentional with your messaging so you can build trust earlier and lead your projects with more clarity and confidence.
Join us this week to hear how language can either strengthen your positioning or quietly undermine it, why leading is more effective than justifying, and how your values can come through in ways that create a stronger connection with best-fit clients. Jaquilyn also shares how small shifts in wording can influence client behaviour, reduce pushback, and support a more aligned and collaborative working relationship from inquiry to install.
If you've been thinking about working with me one-on-one, be sure to get on the private coaching waitlist! Click here to learn more about Design to Thrive and secure your spot to be the first to know when availability opens up.
What You’ll Discover from this Episode:
How your messaging shapes client trust before a project begins.
Why better clients aren’t just about bigger budgets.
What kinds of words can undermine your value and expertise.
How to use language that positions you as the leader of the process.
Why client guidance works better than client justification.
How values-based messaging creates stronger connection and alignment.
Why small shifts in wording can lead to smoother, more profitable projects.
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Full Episode Transcript:
Hey, designer. You're listening to episode 166. Today I'm sitting down with Jaquilyn Edwards, the founder and CEO of Ochre and Beige, a boutique creative agency for interior designers. Whatever stage of business you're in, my experience working with so many designers tells me that you are always looking towards your next level up, both in better clients and smoother projects, where clients follow your lead and creating an excellent experience from inquiry to install.
Today Jaquilyn's sharing how creating these outcomes really starts with priming your potential clients early through the language and word choices you use, whether that is in face-to-face conversations or through your website and onboarding materials. This isn't about having the perfect thing to say or following a script, but rather proactively selecting word choices to design and influence client behavior on the front end so that you can have more aligned clients and less tricky emotional situations to navigate further down the line. I can't wait for you to meet Jaquilyn and start applying what she shares.
Welcome to The Interior Design Business CEO, the only show for designers who are ready to confidently run and grow their businesses without the stress and anxiety. If you're ready to develop a bigger vision for your interior design business, free up your time, and streamline your days for productivity and profit, you're in the right place.
I'm Desi Creswell, an award-winning interior designer and certified life and business coach. I help interior designers just like you stop feeling overwhelmed so they can build profitable businesses they love to run. Are you ready to confidently lead your business, clients, and projects? Let's go.
Desi Creswell: Hello designer, welcome back to the podcast. Today's a special day. We have a guest. It's been a while and it is Jaquilyn Edwards, founder and CEO of Ochre and Beige. A long-time, very dear client of mine introduced us, so I'm very excited to bring her to the show. Welcome, Jaquilyn.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Hi, Desi. Thanks so much for having me. I'm super excited and can't wait to dive into these topics.
Desi Creswell: Same. Why don't we start off with you sharing a little bit about who you are, what you do, and how you support designers?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yes, so I'm Jaquilyn, as you said, and Ochre and Beige is a copywriting and marketing agency. We've been serving interior designers exclusively for almost 10 years now. And a lot of what we do revolves around creating website copy or we've written thousands, literally thousands of blog articles and newsletters. But the whole, I mean, there's a lot more than that, obviously, but the whole point is that we are helping designers attract the clients that they want, give their clients the experience that they want to be known for, and ultimately create these really thriving businesses. Most of our clients are women, if not all of them, and our team is all women and we feel very passionate about that as well. Just each of us kind of going after these things and this, these careers that we love, and supporting our families, and yeah, that's creating that life and freedom is is really important to me. And actually, I think that's why I felt so connected to you when we were introduced because I was like, Desi gets it. Like it's about the person and it's about what you're creating, not just the business, right?
Desi Creswell: Absolutely. And I think there is something to be said for working with other women. Of course, men are great too.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yep, we've had some male clients.
Desi Creswell: Yeah, so have I, and they've they've been amazing to work with. And, I think through it all, the key piece is values alignment. It's not even necessarily male, female, but I think that typically, in a business setting, I think we do understand, especially if you end up being the default parent, not end up as in, you were given that role unwillingly. But I mean, I do think, like certainly in my family, I'm the default parent, and if somebody's sick, I'm going to be the one who's managing that. And I think in a business where you have females running the show and helping out, you just, you get it, because you know what happens behind the scenes.
All right. Well, I'm really excited to talk to you because I did a little bit of a rabbit hole with your website and you do just really specialize in calling to mind some of the really key factors I think in terms of website copy, marketing content, and attracting those luxury clients that so many designers want. And I think that really is something that is across the board for both of our clients is that they are very goal-oriented and always looking to see what is next and uplevel that client that they're attracting, but also the client experience too. And when we originally connected, you had sent me several great topics for the podcast and they were all very interesting. But what I wanted to bring today was how messaging and the language you use, both in person with your potential clients and online as an online presence, really is a key component of attracting and establishing trust with luxury clients.
I think typically we think of messaging as, of course, making an impact at the start of the project. And also the ripple effect that that can have throughout the entirety of the project, you know, encouraging client behavior, smoother project experiences, which of course, if your clients are delighted with how things go, you're less stressed, you're more profitable because you're spending less time, they refer you to more clients down the line. I mean, there's just so many great outcomes. So that is what I wanted to bring here today. And of course, the other thing that I was thinking about is not only does this apply to your client relationships, I really think what you're going to share applies to how you collaborate with project partners as well. And is something that you can not only take for yourself today in terms of how you speak about your work, but also be coaching your team on this as well, because for many of the designers that we work with, they do have a team and they are forward-facing in some capacity, and their language is a reflection of the business. And so to be cognizant of that as well.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Absolutely. And I think it's so interesting, a lot of designers do this. I've even done this myself. We always focus on, okay, what's the bigger client? What's the better client, right? Like how do we attract that, you know, really high-end client? But just because someone has a large investment to spend does not necessarily make them a great client. And vice versa, you could get someone with a lower budget who ends up being the easiest client ever because they meet certain criteria. Maybe it's giving the designer all of the creative control. Maybe it's, you know, not having, you know, the need to go ask everyone else for opinions, that sort of thing. There's so many issues that come up during a client project. And the way we talk about what designers do, like how the services are positioned, can very much change how somebody is led through that process. Not even talking about, you know, systems, of course, but the approach that they bring in, whether they feel open to sharing feedback in a way that is not constructive, but where they're sharing like what they feel instead of trying to solve the problem or saying, hey, can you change the color of this? And then all of a sudden you've got all these dominoes falling, right?
I've also seen in my own business, like just small messaging changes on the front end, whether that's with marketing or, you know, the services guide that they get or the conversation that you have with them, you know, on the discovery call. There are so many ways that you can position yourself as the leader or even just kind of prime client behaviors to go in the direction that you want, because there is no right direction, right? Like each designer might want something different. We've had designers say, oh, I love to collaborate with the clients. Like I want them involved. And we've had more other designers say like, I don't want the clients to be involved at all. Like, I want busy clients so they don't have time. It's like, well, do you want a busy client or do you actually want someone who has the luxury to, you know, have a lot of free time, right? Because they can afford it and they're choosing to delegate instead. There are so many different factors that play into this and we can dive into any of those that you would like because I could definitely go on several tangents here.
Desi Creswell: Yeah, and I love what you're saying about this and that it really aligns with some of the work that I do with my clients when they are feeling kind of overextended or the inquiries that they have coming in are exceeding the number of slots that they have to fulfill. And we talk a lot about client filters and that's something that is something they create. You know, of course with my support, but it's very customized to them because just as you are naming, there's so many different types of people and projects and styles and to be very clear on what is that profile, what are some of the personality traits, like how do they like to engage? Because that's really where I think having the clarity there is really going to help what you're doing here and giving you the right words because language is so impactful and subtleties in the type of word you use, the way that you speak. I think even sentence structure, right? Like, it really starts to send a signal and I always think of, we want to call in and also repel. That's an extreme kind of word, but…
Jaquilyn Edwards: In a gentle way.
Desi Creswell: In a very gentle way. Yes. But we want people to, I was just talking to a client about this the other day of like, you want someone to come to your site and go, ah, yes, like this is for me. And that starts with you really knowing yourself and what's important to you and the way that you want to work. So, I think this is going to be great.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yeah. Also, it's funny that you say that because I I was talking to a client recently, we had done custom website copy for her and at the end of it I just asked, you know, like, how was this process for you, right? And she goes, it was a lot more work than I thought. And I was like, how? I was like, how is that possible? Like you didn't do any work. But it's true, like there are many decisions just like with interior design, right? Like you can't tell somebody how they live their life. Just like I can't tell a designer how they want to work with a client. Like they know how they want to work with the client and then we find the words that's going to attract that client and nurture that client, or even maybe somebody who could be that client but isn't yet, guiding them to being that person and following those boundaries or following that process.
And so, yeah, I think it has to start with the designer. It's like, what do you want? And being just intentional about how do you want this process to go. Maybe not even from a, you know, here’s step one, step two, step three, but more like what are the characteristics of the best client that you've had? What made that experience so great for you and for them? And also to come back to your other point about partners, what we've found as well is that the better the experience the client has, which again, like might have nothing to do with the design experience itself and solely the client relationship, right? And the trust that was built from the beginning, leads to a happier client, which leads to partners who then feel like, oh, my client was - our, you know, joint conjoined client is happier to leading to more referrals and it's like this loop, right? Like it just keeps coming back to you and you get more similar people coming in. And so, yeah, again, like super passionate about this because it's so interconnected and it's controllable, which is wonderful.
Desi Creswell: Yes, very much. And I wonder if what your client was reflecting on is some of the mindset work that I see in relation to this topic because yes, they're not writing the copy, but they're having to work pretty hard with their brain. And part of that is declaring what that next level is for them, being clear for themselves on what they want versus what they think they can have. A lot of it too is like thinking through all the nuanced pieces of what you were saying, what was that excellent client like and naming that for you, because that's what you need. And so I mean, that is mentally work that they have to do. So I think very worthwhile though.
One thing I wanted to just call out before we dive into some of the more specific things that you want to share is that what you're saying, even though you said this is controllable, we also want to be clear with the audience that this isn't about always having the perfect thing to say or that there's one right way to say whatever it is that you want to convey. This is more about finding language that feels authentic to you and finding the words that you can rely on that really match the level of care, the level of expertise, your experience that you bring to this work.
And my impression, and I'm sure you'll share more on this, is very much of like, you're going to have some things that are static, like the website. But also, we have language that we're using every single day when we have these interactions. Maybe it's a meeting or you're trying to respond to an email that's bringing up a lot of emotion in you because it's a tricky situation. And so what you're going to be sharing is going to be flexible and I want the listeners to be thinking about it that way of these are tools to help you respond more fluidly and more confidently as you engage with your clients and project partners throughout the entirety of the project.
Jaquilyn Edwards: I completely agree. And I also think that even just sitting down and thinking about this, maybe it's 20 minutes of your time, right? Maybe it's 30. Even just having it in the back of your mind of like, this is the type of project that I want to run. This is the kind of client behavior that I would like. Even just knowing those things, we're automatically shifting the words that come out of our mouths, right? I think I've shared an example of this before with our email community. Actually, maybe you saw that one. It was two things that were written, the literally the exact same. It's about like the exploration phase of a design project. And one was from the perspective of a design firm that wants to feel very, you know, in charge, leadership, guiding the project. And then there was one that was more warm, approachable, a little bit collaborative, but still guiding the project.
And they were almost identical except for a few little word shifts, and you could feel the difference in the two examples only because it was intentional. And so, to your point, I don't think there's any right or wrong language. It's really about what you want. And when you know that, it will come through whether you're writing or whether you're prompting, you know, AI. I know a lot of designers are using AI these days, or even just having those face-to-face conversations with clients, partners, or team members. So, I think by listening, they're already one step ahead.
Desi Creswell: Yes, exactly. Yes. And I think what I would add to that is paying attention to the emotional state that you're either kind of reacting from or paying attention to what the emotional state is that you want to be in to then communicate from. Because what I'll get a lot from designers or my clients is like, well, just tell me what to say. And yes, absolutely, we can workshop an email that you want to send. We can talk through and practice saying whatever it is you want to deliver. But I think it's always a good place to start with what is the emotion fueling the conversation or communication? Because that will directly impact the types of ways that you deliver your message and of course, the words that you end up using. So I think that's important to call out as well. And all just this piece of awareness, which is what you're saying is that's very much where we want to start is we just want to be aware. What are the words we're using? And maybe it's even being aware too of what are the words you're noticing in other types of advertising or brands to start to call out to your own brain, oh, I see. I see that shift.
Once you're aware of some of the language that you are using and watching for, what are some of the things, I think you've got about three of them that we're going to go through that really you should be focused on either noticing or calling forth in order to attract the best-fit clients and prime them, as you said, to be a best client?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yes. So the three, I'll share the three first and then we can dive into each of those. So the first one is one, just knowing what words are going to undermine the value and expertise that someone is associating with you. The second one is positioning yourself as the leader and the guide and not so much like a task checker or having to justify, you know, your rates, that sort of thing. When you are leading from a place of confidence, it's a totally different vibe that they're getting and the language you use is totally different, which I think starts from within, right? The designer has to feel that way and bring that energy to what they're doing. The third one is infusing your language with your values. And I know that's hard to kind of, it's a little conceptual, right? But the idea is that if you take the time to understand what your core values are and how that aligns with clients, because what we've seen with this work actually, which I think is so fascinating. It took me a while to realize this.
When we would talk about what are our clients' values, and we'd ask them like, what do you really care about? Like, why do you do this? Like, why is this so important to you? And they would tell us, and sometimes it wasn't even business-related, right? Like, sometimes it was very personal and lifestyle related. And then, you know, further along in the conversation, we'd ask them about their clients' values. And what we found was they were almost always the same on this level of just like how they live their lives and like what they value, right? And so when you are familiar with what those things are for you and it comes through in the language that you're using, it creates more connection with those people, especially, I think this is so, so important, especially now with just AI kind of generalizing everything. These are the things that humanize you and you can't fake it. Like when you meet in person, there's that natural connection already, right? Because if you are putting that out there in your words and in your presence online, and then they meet with you and it's the same, it's instant trust. And so that's kind of the third layer of what can we do? How can we look at the words that we're using every day to, again, attract those, you know, right fit clients and also create really great clients to work with.
Desi Creswell: Oh, absolutely. Yes. And I'll say there is an episode on this podcast. I think it's called Your two Whys or the two Whys You Need in Business. I can't remember exactly what it's called. You'll have to scroll back a little bit. But that could be a good one for listeners to start to, like just listen and consider this values piece because I do think there is that why you do it for your client and also why you do it for yourself. And that can very much be a values conversation. And so another way to just bring some awareness to this. I would love to talk a little bit more about being cognizant of the words and phrases that might undermine your experience and your value. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yes. So, there are a couple angles, right? So one is whenever we're focusing a lot on the outcome, or whenever we're using, for example, our portfolios to just kind of sell for, I mean, sell is not the right word, but to like lead for us, right? Like whenever we're focusing on the outcome. Yes, of course, like a client is investing in the outcome, right? But an affluent client especially knows the difference between a good experience and one that's not. They're often people who know how to delegate, right? They're, many of them are in a managerial roles. Like these are the the types of people that are booking these high investment projects, right? So we know that they are savvy enough to ask the hard questions and figure out, does this designer really have it together behind the scenes or not?
And so the language that you're using, if you're talking about only the outcome and you're never talking about the process, or you're never talking about partnerships, which is huge. Also, I know a lot of designers, I think every designer I've ever talked to has told me, yeah, I hate it when clients ask me, what are your margins? Or, you know, what's your markup? It's like, that's not really an appropriate question. And I think that when you lead, this is, you know, a thing you can literally do right now. When you lead with talking about the quality of your partnerships and your network and these vendors that you have really spent the time and energy to build relationships with, that is an asset the business owns. And so when you can kind of layer that into the experience, right? Like, you're sharing about it in your marketing. Okay, now they're booking with you and you're talking about it on the discovery call. Okay, now they've gotten, you know, that in-home consultation with you. Are you talking about it again? So it's like, it's literally just layering in these details that are making it feel very process driven, that's bringing forward your expertise without just focusing on what's the end result, that's positioning you as someone that they can trust and building that trust earlier.
Desi Creswell: I love that you're calling this out because I think you are bringing forth the idea of experience. What is the overall experience of working with you? And I also think I love to hear you highlighting that the partnerships that you have, the resources that you have access to because you've cultivated those relationships, I love that you called that an asset in the business. I think too many people, or too many designers forget that that is a really valuable asset. And, you know, when people get uncomfortable about maybe this the fee they're charging or the margins that they are adding on to the product that they sell. It's not about that one sofa. It is about the relationship that you have access to, have cultivated, all of that. It is a very valuable piece of the relationship to the designer. So thank you for calling that out.
And I think also, one thing that I was thinking about as you were speaking is how great this could all be as content for your stories on Instagram. I think, you know, it can be hard to think like, oh, well, what should I post? But if you're talking about on your website all these great people that you have that are going to help create a lovely project for your client, show them. You can tag the partners, you can show a meeting that you're having on site, you can highlight some of the showrooms that you frequent, whatever that is, but starting to take some of these pieces and extend the arm of the marketing beyond the website as well. So I think that's really fun to think about.
Jaquilyn Edwards: It also deepens relationships with those partners if you do that, which we have seen work very well for our clients, even just highlighting them, whether it's on Instagram or in a newsletter or in a blog post, they end up returning the favor, or they end up staying engaged with what you're doing. Maybe they give you a follow where they hadn't before. And so it's really just a way to like bring that community that you have closer. A lot of what we do is the writing. So, you know, whether it's the website or the marketing or the client resources, but when you're in person with a client and maybe even giving the design presentation or doing the in-home consultation, these are things that can be said out loud.
So maybe you're sharing this piece that you picked out, tell the story behind it, talk about why that vendor is so amazing, talk about the relationship that you have with them. Kind of just slip in these little details as you're talking about it because it creates more, well one, people love a story in general. If you've got a story about a piece, fabulous. Like now they have a story about that piece, right? But two, it raises their esteem of what you're doing. And that is just, it makes it easier for them to say yes. It makes it easier for them to not second guess once you start procurement and they're like, oh, maybe I changed my mind and you're like, please, no.
Desi Creswell: Yeah, absolutely.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Writing and speaking, messaging is so important and again, it's all about alignment and just knowing what you want and what you love and what clients value and bringing that a little bit forward.
Desi Creswell: Mhm. Yes. And I think that really leads us to the second point that you were making about using the language to convey that you are the leader of the process. And I love this because I actually did a workshop on this for Business of Home. So any of you who are Business of Home membership members, you can go into the vault and see the Lead Yourself to Lead Your Clients masterclass that I did. So I'm on board, of course, with this. One of the distinctions you made was about guiding and not justifying. I think that's also really important. So why don't you tell us a little bit more about this piece?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yes. So justifying looks like, oh, the client, you know, isn't sure why they're paying this fee for XYZ. And justifying is like, oh, well, it's in our contract. But if we can use the language, there are two ways to approach it, right? Because one, you have to solve the problem in the situation, right? Like, but in my mind, I'm like, that problem should have been solved a long time before. And I've seen that in my own business as well. Whenever we have a problem like, okay, where did this problem actually start? Like what did I not do well, you know, five steps ago, right?
Desi Creswell: Yep. Go upstream for sure.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Exactly. And so when we talk about leading and just positioning as leadership, yes, that's being very process forward, but it's also those again, I would even challenge, you know, listeners to think about, what are the things that really bother you during a project? Like what derails you? Is it micromanaging? I'm sure it's all these things. Is it micromanaging? Is it, you know, them needing to ask, you know, their cousin and their neighbor for their opinion before they can decide on anything? Is it, you know, them going and sourcing it on their own for cheaper? And you're like, no, like we don't do that.
Whatever it happens to be, those are the things where guiding is bringing it back to that, I don't want to say education because that doesn't sound very nice. But you are, like you do have to kind of educate and nurture a client to know these things as they're going into the process. And so, for example, if that's, you know, micromanaging or maybe they want to see more, maybe they feel like they need to see all the options. Address that early. And so maybe in onboarding, it's like, hey, here's how we go through thousands of options for you to give you only the best, right? So it's literally framing. And so take those things that you don't really like that they do, and then flip it to what you want them to do and then make it about them, right?
Desi Creswell: Yeah, that's exactly what I used to say.
Jaquilyn Edwards: This is why you want to do it this way. Like, this is why you want us to be ordering all of these things for you, right? Like, this is why you don't want to make late changes because it's very costly or, you know, whatever it happens to be. So when we say guiding not justifying, it's really just backtracking and figuring out what are those things that you really want to make sure that they know and repeating them. Sometimes that's even in, we look at it from what are we sharing in marketing, right? Then there's onboarding. So when they're getting to know you, maybe it's the consultation before they've signed that official proposal. Then it's like, how are you welcoming them? Like, are they getting a welcome guide or some kind of, you know, packet, information packet, whatever. I hope it's beautiful. It should be beautiful so they feel like they want to read it, right?
And then of course, like milestones, are we sending out milestone emails, like when they get to each next phase and reminding them of what they need to know at this phase so that they aren't having these questions or push back later because they're surprised, because people forget. Like we've all got a lot going on, right? And so really it's, I don't want to say repetition, education and repetition, but a little bit of it is if you're trying to guide them the direction that you want them to go, which honestly is the best direction for them as well, because they're going to get the best outcome and they're going to be the happiest client, right?
Desi Creswell: Oh, absolutely. I think it's also setting the expectation of what's next too, just when you're talking about those emails. Because I find that clients tend to go a little bit rogue when they don't know what to expect. So they start either worrying and when we take action from a place of worry, that can be very scattered and frantic, right?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Nobody wants that email.
Desi Creswell: No, and they start filling in the gaps and then all of a sudden with, you know, worst case or like, what are they doing? How are they spending my money or whatever it is. And then that's when you get that tricky email that you then have to respond to. So by being upfront about leading and this is how it's going to go and of course, redirecting them as needed and reminding them, you save yourself so much energy on the back end. And I think that overall, I mean, people do want to be led through the process. I think sometimes there's just an issue with, you know, when we look at these affluent clients, a lot of them are in those C-suite positions. They're used to being the leader. So you have to establish that, no, actually, I'm the leader right now and you can sit back.
Jaquilyn Edwards: That's why you hired me.
Desi Creswell: Right? And they might even say that at the get-go, but then they might forget and default to how they operate in the office. And so then again, it's your job to remind them and guide them back.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yeah.
Desi Creswell: Yep. And I think that really does establish so much trust too. To help people understand how it's going to go and then follow through on how it's going to go, giving them the opportunity to see that what you say is what happens. That is a high trust builder and the more trust you have, the more they're willing to let you run with things, which is great.
Jaquilyn Edwards: And the more trust earlier, the better off you're going to be. Like when that client finally, you can see when they're like, okay, you've got this, right? If that happens earlier, you've got a better project versus if that happens later, or maybe not at all, then you're having more of those tricky situations and it just can be harder for the designer.
Desi Creswell: For sure. All right. And then let's talk a little bit about the third one. We've brought it up a bit, but this is all about applying the values-aligned language and using that to create the stronger trust and connection in the relationship. So tell us a little bit more about that. One of the things you had mentioned when we were just having a pre-conversation about this is going beyond the surface-level values like quality or excellence and really digging so that you can articulate how you want to serve your client. So can you give me a little bit more on that and how a designer could go beyond some of those surface-level phrases that everyone puts on their website?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yeah. And I don't think there's anything wrong with quality or excellence, right? Like those are hallmarks of great design. But when we talk about human values and like what's connecting us as people, those often go a little bit deeper. Some good examples I have are, you know, just some that have come up in conversations with our clients. Some of them realized, and this is after many years in business, but they realized that they share this value with their clients of really loving supporting local and buying local. And so that has become, that was always a thread in the business before that, but it became something that we kind of amped up with the messaging because we realized that they have this in common and that it's so powerful and that's something different, right? You don't see that everywhere.
Another example was just like mind-body wellness. That's it's out there for sure, but it can be done in a different way that feels very personal to whatever stage of life the designer is at or whatever stage of life their clients are at. It's very different for someone who, you know, has kids or is approaching retirement, right? Like they're different things going on in your life and what you're seeking to support your wellness with in those phases. Another one was outdoor living. One of our clients was like, I realized that all of my clients are very outdoorsy. And even though we didn't like plan up like, oh, you need to be outdoorsy to work with us, right? Like we definitely didn't do that. But we pulled in, we realized like all of her projects have a lot of nature in them, like nature-inspired themes. And so we kind of brought that forth a little bit.
We didn't theme everything, right? It's just bringing these things a little bit forward so it feels like something people can latch onto, right? So there are a lot of different, I could think of so many. Our goal is always with every client just to find different ones, but it's okay if they're not, because it's you. And that's the point you are going to have your own unique combination and your own unique way of expressing those values. And so sure, maybe it's quality, but how does that show up? Like if that happens to be, you're like, well, I'm just so passionate about - like, okay, why? Where's that passion coming from, right? Because I guarantee there's a story there. And so it's pulling out those things and figuring out what those connection points are between the designer and the clients or the design team. Maybe it's a team, right? What are the team dynamics that feel really special? Those are the things that when we can bring that forward in the copy and in the messaging and even the way you're speaking every day, I don't want to make people feel like they have to, or make designers feel like they have to go change all of their copy, right? But again, it's like when you have it in your mind, it like comes out.
Desi Creswell: Yeah, definitely.
Jaquilyn Edwards: It’s conscious.
Desi Creswell: It definitely, yeah, I think so. And even if you're not going to go do anything with your website, I think with all the things that you've shared, of course, having the awareness, but then start to just jot these things down. Because eventually you may want to use some of this to do a website project or maybe it's just start to subtly shift the Instagram posts that you're writing or the blog posts you're doing, the newsletter you're sending, and I actually think that that can be a really great way to just start to test the waters of like, what does it feel like to say these things this way? What kind of response do I get? Does it feel actually aligned to what I'm doing and, you know, really start to flesh out what it is that you want to communicate. And so hopefully that just takes the pressure off for any listener of there's lots of ways to lean into this and it'll all be fruitful in a variety of ways.
Jaquilyn Edwards: I agree. I completely agree. And I was also going to say, I feel like alignment is the big with all of these, with any, with with all three of these things that we've talked about, it's really about alignment. It's not right versus wrong, it's what is right for you. And I think when you find that and when you feel like you're on that track, the confidence that comes from that is so different because you feel grounded and centered and you're not, oh, I know so many designers have told me, yeah, I'm you know, I'm scrolling and I'm just like, ooh, do I need to do that? Do I need to do that? There's this, you know, comparison trap that we get into. And when you're leading from this place of, I feel good about this, I feel aligned with this, you know, I'm speaking to the people that I want to attract and I'm, you know, directing the experience the way I want to, you're not kind of looking with envy or looking with a feeling of less than, you're able to just feel very confident in what you're doing and in all of your conversations as well.
Desi Creswell: Oh yes, 100%. I think it's just being able to come back to that steady, grounded spot where it feels true for you what you're doing. And that does take knowing what's true to begin with, but very worthwhile to investigate that and dig deep for yourself. Now, we've gone over these three pieces here. I think they're all excellent. I hope that the listeners run with it and test some of these things out. We've also talked about just how there's such an impact throughout the entirety of the project. And tell me what some of the results are that you've seen for clients if there's some that we haven't touched on that you'd like to highlight.
Jaquilyn Edwards: We've had clients tell us that they're getting less pushback on rates. We've had clients tell us that every proposal is getting accepted now because the trust has been built there before they've even sent it out. No one has told me this, but I'm confident in our almost 10 years that our our clients have raised their rates. Like absolutely. And I we didn't really talk about, you know, so much like, oh, what does a luxury client need, right? Using that terminology. But doing all of these things like positioning yourself as a leader and focusing on process and experience and not just outcome, those are things that increase the value of what you're doing, the at least the perceived value of what you're doing and that does speak to a luxury client.
And so we've had clients go from, hey, I was booking one room projects and now I'm booking whole home projects or I finally got that dream project that I wanted and now I'm at a builder who can introduce me to more and I feel so confident sending my materials because they represent me. And it's really such a trickle, right? Like it really trickles into the whole design process and again, how those people are circling back through referrals or repeat business or partner referrals. I think it's so worth it because it touches everything in your business, even the back-end systems, right? Like, we've had clients tell us they're more efficient because now they're not doing all this extra work, right? Because they're not getting that micromanage-y or pushback, you know, type of client. So, yeah, there's a lot to be gained here.
Desi Creswell: For sure. And I think that you would likely have some revisions even to your process. Because if you know how you want to lead and guide the project, then you can take a look at how do the things that I'm sending out to onboard, how do the communications that happen between meetings go, all those different things will really, I think get so much more clear and customized to the way that you want to serve your clients versus, you know, just sort of like a, well, this is what, you know, the designer down the street does, which I think can be a great place to just start with systems and processes of what other people do. Okay, I'll try that. And once you get to know yourself and your ideal client better, then you can really start to refine those as well.
Jaquilyn Edwards: And I think refine is the right word because we've had clients who have worked with us to revamp everything, start to finish, marketing to client, you know, send off, right? But I feel like that's very overwhelming for a lot of designers, the idea that I have to overhaul all of this. And I do not think that, you know, everybody has to do that. I think refining is the right word. Adjust what feels right in the moment. If you, now that they have this in their minds, right? Like they can go and say, as they're going through their day-to-day, you know, workflows like, hey, maybe this doesn't fit anymore and maybe that's okay. And so start to do that refinement in a way that feels natural and not like, oh, I have this big project I have to do. That sounds very scary.
Desi Creswell: Thank you for saying that. Yes. Good reminder. Good reminder. All right, Jaquilyn, well this has been such a treat having you on. I'm excited to hear how the designers listening are going to take this and start to play with it. Can you let everyone know where they can find you if they want to chat more about your services, what they heard on the podcast, download some of your incredible free resources, give it all.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yes. So I think our website is probably the best starting place. It’s OchreAndBeige.com and ochre is o-c-h-r-e. I don't know why I was feeling so British when I started this company, but there it is. And if anyone wants to sign up for our newsletter, it’s OchreAndBeige.com/newsletter and I pour a ton of love into that just in trying to, you know, share insights and more free resources and tips and things like that. I spend a lot of time there and I as a writer, that's my outlet.
Desi Creswell: I can attest to that. I'm on the newsletter list and you send some really good things. So, place to be.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Thank you.
Desi Creswell: I also noticed on your website too, the, I think it's like luxury words or phrases that clients need to hear. That looked like a really good one. So basically what I'm saying. Yes. It's our luxury word list. Yes. Is everyone should just go over to the website and poke around and see what suits you.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yeah. You'll find some things off the beaten track. Yeah, that's my goal.
Desi Creswell: Yes, for sure. All right. Well, thank you again for being here. And for everyone listening, thanks for joining us. I'll be back in two weeks with a new episode. So make sure you're subscribed and that way it just pops right into your feed. And until then, we are both wishing you a beautiful week.
Thanks for joining me for this week's episode of The Interior Design Business CEO. If you want more tips, tools and strategies visit DesiCreswell.com, where you’ll get immediate access to a variety of free resources to help you take what you learn on the podcast and put it into action. And if you love what you’re hearing, be sure to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen to podcasts to ensure you never miss an episode. I’ll talk to you next week.
Today Jaquilyn's sharing how creating these outcomes really starts with priming your potential clients early through the language and word choices you use, whether that is in face-to-face conversations or through your website and onboarding materials. This isn't about having the perfect thing to say or following a script, but rather proactively selecting word choices to design and influence client behavior on the front end so that you can have more aligned clients and less tricky emotional situations to navigate further down the line. I can't wait for you to meet Jaquilyn and start applying what she shares.
Welcome to The Interior Design Business CEO, the only show for designers who are ready to confidently run and grow their businesses without the stress and anxiety. If you're ready to develop a bigger vision for your interior design business, free up your time, and streamline your days for productivity and profit, you're in the right place.
I'm Desi Creswell, an award-winning interior designer and certified life and business coach. I help interior designers just like you stop feeling overwhelmed so they can build profitable businesses they love to run. Are you ready to confidently lead your business, clients, and projects? Let's go.
Desi Creswell: Hello designer, welcome back to the podcast. Today's a special day. We have a guest. It's been a while and it is Jaquilyn Edwards, founder and CEO of Ochre and Beige. A long-time, very dear client of mine introduced us, so I'm very excited to bring her to the show. Welcome, Jaquilyn.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Hi, Desi. Thanks so much for having me. I'm super excited and can't wait to dive into these topics.
Desi Creswell: Same. Why don't we start off with you sharing a little bit about who you are, what you do, and how you support designers?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yes, so I'm Jaquilyn, as you said, and Ochre and Beige is a copywriting and marketing agency. We've been serving interior designers exclusively for almost 10 years now. And a lot of what we do revolves around creating website copy or we've written thousands, literally thousands of blog articles and newsletters. But the whole, I mean, there's a lot more than that, obviously, but the whole point is that we are helping designers attract the clients that they want, give their clients the experience that they want to be known for, and ultimately create these really thriving businesses. Most of our clients are women, if not all of them, and our team is all women and we feel very passionate about that as well. Just each of us kind of going after these things and this, these careers that we love, and supporting our families, and yeah, that's creating that life and freedom is is really important to me. And actually, I think that's why I felt so connected to you when we were introduced because I was like, Desi gets it. Like it's about the person and it's about what you're creating, not just the business, right?
Desi Creswell: Absolutely. And I think there is something to be said for working with other women. Of course, men are great too.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yep, we've had some male clients.
Desi Creswell: Yeah, so have I, and they've they've been amazing to work with. And, I think through it all, the key piece is values alignment. It's not even necessarily male, female, but I think that typically, in a business setting, I think we do understand, especially if you end up being the default parent, not end up as in, you were given that role unwillingly. But I mean, I do think, like certainly in my family, I'm the default parent, and if somebody's sick, I'm going to be the one who's managing that. And I think in a business where you have females running the show and helping out, you just, you get it, because you know what happens behind the scenes.
All right. Well, I'm really excited to talk to you because I did a little bit of a rabbit hole with your website and you do just really specialize in calling to mind some of the really key factors I think in terms of website copy, marketing content, and attracting those luxury clients that so many designers want. And I think that really is something that is across the board for both of our clients is that they are very goal-oriented and always looking to see what is next and uplevel that client that they're attracting, but also the client experience too. And when we originally connected, you had sent me several great topics for the podcast and they were all very interesting. But what I wanted to bring today was how messaging and the language you use, both in person with your potential clients and online as an online presence, really is a key component of attracting and establishing trust with luxury clients.
I think typically we think of messaging as, of course, making an impact at the start of the project. And also the ripple effect that that can have throughout the entirety of the project, you know, encouraging client behavior, smoother project experiences, which of course, if your clients are delighted with how things go, you're less stressed, you're more profitable because you're spending less time, they refer you to more clients down the line. I mean, there's just so many great outcomes. So that is what I wanted to bring here today. And of course, the other thing that I was thinking about is not only does this apply to your client relationships, I really think what you're going to share applies to how you collaborate with project partners as well. And is something that you can not only take for yourself today in terms of how you speak about your work, but also be coaching your team on this as well, because for many of the designers that we work with, they do have a team and they are forward-facing in some capacity, and their language is a reflection of the business. And so to be cognizant of that as well.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Absolutely. And I think it's so interesting, a lot of designers do this. I've even done this myself. We always focus on, okay, what's the bigger client? What's the better client, right? Like how do we attract that, you know, really high-end client? But just because someone has a large investment to spend does not necessarily make them a great client. And vice versa, you could get someone with a lower budget who ends up being the easiest client ever because they meet certain criteria. Maybe it's giving the designer all of the creative control. Maybe it's, you know, not having, you know, the need to go ask everyone else for opinions, that sort of thing. There's so many issues that come up during a client project. And the way we talk about what designers do, like how the services are positioned, can very much change how somebody is led through that process. Not even talking about, you know, systems, of course, but the approach that they bring in, whether they feel open to sharing feedback in a way that is not constructive, but where they're sharing like what they feel instead of trying to solve the problem or saying, hey, can you change the color of this? And then all of a sudden you've got all these dominoes falling, right?
I've also seen in my own business, like just small messaging changes on the front end, whether that's with marketing or, you know, the services guide that they get or the conversation that you have with them, you know, on the discovery call. There are so many ways that you can position yourself as the leader or even just kind of prime client behaviors to go in the direction that you want, because there is no right direction, right? Like each designer might want something different. We've had designers say, oh, I love to collaborate with the clients. Like I want them involved. And we've had more other designers say like, I don't want the clients to be involved at all. Like, I want busy clients so they don't have time. It's like, well, do you want a busy client or do you actually want someone who has the luxury to, you know, have a lot of free time, right? Because they can afford it and they're choosing to delegate instead. There are so many different factors that play into this and we can dive into any of those that you would like because I could definitely go on several tangents here.
Desi Creswell: Yeah, and I love what you're saying about this and that it really aligns with some of the work that I do with my clients when they are feeling kind of overextended or the inquiries that they have coming in are exceeding the number of slots that they have to fulfill. And we talk a lot about client filters and that's something that is something they create. You know, of course with my support, but it's very customized to them because just as you are naming, there's so many different types of people and projects and styles and to be very clear on what is that profile, what are some of the personality traits, like how do they like to engage? Because that's really where I think having the clarity there is really going to help what you're doing here and giving you the right words because language is so impactful and subtleties in the type of word you use, the way that you speak. I think even sentence structure, right? Like, it really starts to send a signal and I always think of, we want to call in and also repel. That's an extreme kind of word, but…
Jaquilyn Edwards: In a gentle way.
Desi Creswell: In a very gentle way. Yes. But we want people to, I was just talking to a client about this the other day of like, you want someone to come to your site and go, ah, yes, like this is for me. And that starts with you really knowing yourself and what's important to you and the way that you want to work. So, I think this is going to be great.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yeah. Also, it's funny that you say that because I I was talking to a client recently, we had done custom website copy for her and at the end of it I just asked, you know, like, how was this process for you, right? And she goes, it was a lot more work than I thought. And I was like, how? I was like, how is that possible? Like you didn't do any work. But it's true, like there are many decisions just like with interior design, right? Like you can't tell somebody how they live their life. Just like I can't tell a designer how they want to work with a client. Like they know how they want to work with the client and then we find the words that's going to attract that client and nurture that client, or even maybe somebody who could be that client but isn't yet, guiding them to being that person and following those boundaries or following that process.
And so, yeah, I think it has to start with the designer. It's like, what do you want? And being just intentional about how do you want this process to go. Maybe not even from a, you know, here’s step one, step two, step three, but more like what are the characteristics of the best client that you've had? What made that experience so great for you and for them? And also to come back to your other point about partners, what we've found as well is that the better the experience the client has, which again, like might have nothing to do with the design experience itself and solely the client relationship, right? And the trust that was built from the beginning, leads to a happier client, which leads to partners who then feel like, oh, my client was - our, you know, joint conjoined client is happier to leading to more referrals and it's like this loop, right? Like it just keeps coming back to you and you get more similar people coming in. And so, yeah, again, like super passionate about this because it's so interconnected and it's controllable, which is wonderful.
Desi Creswell: Yes, very much. And I wonder if what your client was reflecting on is some of the mindset work that I see in relation to this topic because yes, they're not writing the copy, but they're having to work pretty hard with their brain. And part of that is declaring what that next level is for them, being clear for themselves on what they want versus what they think they can have. A lot of it too is like thinking through all the nuanced pieces of what you were saying, what was that excellent client like and naming that for you, because that's what you need. And so I mean, that is mentally work that they have to do. So I think very worthwhile though.
One thing I wanted to just call out before we dive into some of the more specific things that you want to share is that what you're saying, even though you said this is controllable, we also want to be clear with the audience that this isn't about always having the perfect thing to say or that there's one right way to say whatever it is that you want to convey. This is more about finding language that feels authentic to you and finding the words that you can rely on that really match the level of care, the level of expertise, your experience that you bring to this work.
And my impression, and I'm sure you'll share more on this, is very much of like, you're going to have some things that are static, like the website. But also, we have language that we're using every single day when we have these interactions. Maybe it's a meeting or you're trying to respond to an email that's bringing up a lot of emotion in you because it's a tricky situation. And so what you're going to be sharing is going to be flexible and I want the listeners to be thinking about it that way of these are tools to help you respond more fluidly and more confidently as you engage with your clients and project partners throughout the entirety of the project.
Jaquilyn Edwards: I completely agree. And I also think that even just sitting down and thinking about this, maybe it's 20 minutes of your time, right? Maybe it's 30. Even just having it in the back of your mind of like, this is the type of project that I want to run. This is the kind of client behavior that I would like. Even just knowing those things, we're automatically shifting the words that come out of our mouths, right? I think I've shared an example of this before with our email community. Actually, maybe you saw that one. It was two things that were written, the literally the exact same. It's about like the exploration phase of a design project. And one was from the perspective of a design firm that wants to feel very, you know, in charge, leadership, guiding the project. And then there was one that was more warm, approachable, a little bit collaborative, but still guiding the project.
And they were almost identical except for a few little word shifts, and you could feel the difference in the two examples only because it was intentional. And so, to your point, I don't think there's any right or wrong language. It's really about what you want. And when you know that, it will come through whether you're writing or whether you're prompting, you know, AI. I know a lot of designers are using AI these days, or even just having those face-to-face conversations with clients, partners, or team members. So, I think by listening, they're already one step ahead.
Desi Creswell: Yes, exactly. Yes. And I think what I would add to that is paying attention to the emotional state that you're either kind of reacting from or paying attention to what the emotional state is that you want to be in to then communicate from. Because what I'll get a lot from designers or my clients is like, well, just tell me what to say. And yes, absolutely, we can workshop an email that you want to send. We can talk through and practice saying whatever it is you want to deliver. But I think it's always a good place to start with what is the emotion fueling the conversation or communication? Because that will directly impact the types of ways that you deliver your message and of course, the words that you end up using. So I think that's important to call out as well. And all just this piece of awareness, which is what you're saying is that's very much where we want to start is we just want to be aware. What are the words we're using? And maybe it's even being aware too of what are the words you're noticing in other types of advertising or brands to start to call out to your own brain, oh, I see. I see that shift.
Once you're aware of some of the language that you are using and watching for, what are some of the things, I think you've got about three of them that we're going to go through that really you should be focused on either noticing or calling forth in order to attract the best-fit clients and prime them, as you said, to be a best client?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yes. So the three, I'll share the three first and then we can dive into each of those. So the first one is one, just knowing what words are going to undermine the value and expertise that someone is associating with you. The second one is positioning yourself as the leader and the guide and not so much like a task checker or having to justify, you know, your rates, that sort of thing. When you are leading from a place of confidence, it's a totally different vibe that they're getting and the language you use is totally different, which I think starts from within, right? The designer has to feel that way and bring that energy to what they're doing. The third one is infusing your language with your values. And I know that's hard to kind of, it's a little conceptual, right? But the idea is that if you take the time to understand what your core values are and how that aligns with clients, because what we've seen with this work actually, which I think is so fascinating. It took me a while to realize this.
When we would talk about what are our clients' values, and we'd ask them like, what do you really care about? Like, why do you do this? Like, why is this so important to you? And they would tell us, and sometimes it wasn't even business-related, right? Like, sometimes it was very personal and lifestyle related. And then, you know, further along in the conversation, we'd ask them about their clients' values. And what we found was they were almost always the same on this level of just like how they live their lives and like what they value, right? And so when you are familiar with what those things are for you and it comes through in the language that you're using, it creates more connection with those people, especially, I think this is so, so important, especially now with just AI kind of generalizing everything. These are the things that humanize you and you can't fake it. Like when you meet in person, there's that natural connection already, right? Because if you are putting that out there in your words and in your presence online, and then they meet with you and it's the same, it's instant trust. And so that's kind of the third layer of what can we do? How can we look at the words that we're using every day to, again, attract those, you know, right fit clients and also create really great clients to work with.
Desi Creswell: Oh, absolutely. Yes. And I'll say there is an episode on this podcast. I think it's called Your two Whys or the two Whys You Need in Business. I can't remember exactly what it's called. You'll have to scroll back a little bit. But that could be a good one for listeners to start to, like just listen and consider this values piece because I do think there is that why you do it for your client and also why you do it for yourself. And that can very much be a values conversation. And so another way to just bring some awareness to this. I would love to talk a little bit more about being cognizant of the words and phrases that might undermine your experience and your value. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yes. So, there are a couple angles, right? So one is whenever we're focusing a lot on the outcome, or whenever we're using, for example, our portfolios to just kind of sell for, I mean, sell is not the right word, but to like lead for us, right? Like whenever we're focusing on the outcome. Yes, of course, like a client is investing in the outcome, right? But an affluent client especially knows the difference between a good experience and one that's not. They're often people who know how to delegate, right? They're, many of them are in a managerial roles. Like these are the the types of people that are booking these high investment projects, right? So we know that they are savvy enough to ask the hard questions and figure out, does this designer really have it together behind the scenes or not?
And so the language that you're using, if you're talking about only the outcome and you're never talking about the process, or you're never talking about partnerships, which is huge. Also, I know a lot of designers, I think every designer I've ever talked to has told me, yeah, I hate it when clients ask me, what are your margins? Or, you know, what's your markup? It's like, that's not really an appropriate question. And I think that when you lead, this is, you know, a thing you can literally do right now. When you lead with talking about the quality of your partnerships and your network and these vendors that you have really spent the time and energy to build relationships with, that is an asset the business owns. And so when you can kind of layer that into the experience, right? Like, you're sharing about it in your marketing. Okay, now they're booking with you and you're talking about it on the discovery call. Okay, now they've gotten, you know, that in-home consultation with you. Are you talking about it again? So it's like, it's literally just layering in these details that are making it feel very process driven, that's bringing forward your expertise without just focusing on what's the end result, that's positioning you as someone that they can trust and building that trust earlier.
Desi Creswell: I love that you're calling this out because I think you are bringing forth the idea of experience. What is the overall experience of working with you? And I also think I love to hear you highlighting that the partnerships that you have, the resources that you have access to because you've cultivated those relationships, I love that you called that an asset in the business. I think too many people, or too many designers forget that that is a really valuable asset. And, you know, when people get uncomfortable about maybe this the fee they're charging or the margins that they are adding on to the product that they sell. It's not about that one sofa. It is about the relationship that you have access to, have cultivated, all of that. It is a very valuable piece of the relationship to the designer. So thank you for calling that out.
And I think also, one thing that I was thinking about as you were speaking is how great this could all be as content for your stories on Instagram. I think, you know, it can be hard to think like, oh, well, what should I post? But if you're talking about on your website all these great people that you have that are going to help create a lovely project for your client, show them. You can tag the partners, you can show a meeting that you're having on site, you can highlight some of the showrooms that you frequent, whatever that is, but starting to take some of these pieces and extend the arm of the marketing beyond the website as well. So I think that's really fun to think about.
Jaquilyn Edwards: It also deepens relationships with those partners if you do that, which we have seen work very well for our clients, even just highlighting them, whether it's on Instagram or in a newsletter or in a blog post, they end up returning the favor, or they end up staying engaged with what you're doing. Maybe they give you a follow where they hadn't before. And so it's really just a way to like bring that community that you have closer. A lot of what we do is the writing. So, you know, whether it's the website or the marketing or the client resources, but when you're in person with a client and maybe even giving the design presentation or doing the in-home consultation, these are things that can be said out loud.
So maybe you're sharing this piece that you picked out, tell the story behind it, talk about why that vendor is so amazing, talk about the relationship that you have with them. Kind of just slip in these little details as you're talking about it because it creates more, well one, people love a story in general. If you've got a story about a piece, fabulous. Like now they have a story about that piece, right? But two, it raises their esteem of what you're doing. And that is just, it makes it easier for them to say yes. It makes it easier for them to not second guess once you start procurement and they're like, oh, maybe I changed my mind and you're like, please, no.
Desi Creswell: Yeah, absolutely.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Writing and speaking, messaging is so important and again, it's all about alignment and just knowing what you want and what you love and what clients value and bringing that a little bit forward.
Desi Creswell: Mhm. Yes. And I think that really leads us to the second point that you were making about using the language to convey that you are the leader of the process. And I love this because I actually did a workshop on this for Business of Home. So any of you who are Business of Home membership members, you can go into the vault and see the Lead Yourself to Lead Your Clients masterclass that I did. So I'm on board, of course, with this. One of the distinctions you made was about guiding and not justifying. I think that's also really important. So why don't you tell us a little bit more about this piece?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yes. So justifying looks like, oh, the client, you know, isn't sure why they're paying this fee for XYZ. And justifying is like, oh, well, it's in our contract. But if we can use the language, there are two ways to approach it, right? Because one, you have to solve the problem in the situation, right? Like, but in my mind, I'm like, that problem should have been solved a long time before. And I've seen that in my own business as well. Whenever we have a problem like, okay, where did this problem actually start? Like what did I not do well, you know, five steps ago, right?
Desi Creswell: Yep. Go upstream for sure.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Exactly. And so when we talk about leading and just positioning as leadership, yes, that's being very process forward, but it's also those again, I would even challenge, you know, listeners to think about, what are the things that really bother you during a project? Like what derails you? Is it micromanaging? I'm sure it's all these things. Is it micromanaging? Is it, you know, them needing to ask, you know, their cousin and their neighbor for their opinion before they can decide on anything? Is it, you know, them going and sourcing it on their own for cheaper? And you're like, no, like we don't do that.
Whatever it happens to be, those are the things where guiding is bringing it back to that, I don't want to say education because that doesn't sound very nice. But you are, like you do have to kind of educate and nurture a client to know these things as they're going into the process. And so, for example, if that's, you know, micromanaging or maybe they want to see more, maybe they feel like they need to see all the options. Address that early. And so maybe in onboarding, it's like, hey, here's how we go through thousands of options for you to give you only the best, right? So it's literally framing. And so take those things that you don't really like that they do, and then flip it to what you want them to do and then make it about them, right?
Desi Creswell: Yeah, that's exactly what I used to say.
Jaquilyn Edwards: This is why you want to do it this way. Like, this is why you want us to be ordering all of these things for you, right? Like, this is why you don't want to make late changes because it's very costly or, you know, whatever it happens to be. So when we say guiding not justifying, it's really just backtracking and figuring out what are those things that you really want to make sure that they know and repeating them. Sometimes that's even in, we look at it from what are we sharing in marketing, right? Then there's onboarding. So when they're getting to know you, maybe it's the consultation before they've signed that official proposal. Then it's like, how are you welcoming them? Like, are they getting a welcome guide or some kind of, you know, packet, information packet, whatever. I hope it's beautiful. It should be beautiful so they feel like they want to read it, right?
And then of course, like milestones, are we sending out milestone emails, like when they get to each next phase and reminding them of what they need to know at this phase so that they aren't having these questions or push back later because they're surprised, because people forget. Like we've all got a lot going on, right? And so really it's, I don't want to say repetition, education and repetition, but a little bit of it is if you're trying to guide them the direction that you want them to go, which honestly is the best direction for them as well, because they're going to get the best outcome and they're going to be the happiest client, right?
Desi Creswell: Oh, absolutely. I think it's also setting the expectation of what's next too, just when you're talking about those emails. Because I find that clients tend to go a little bit rogue when they don't know what to expect. So they start either worrying and when we take action from a place of worry, that can be very scattered and frantic, right?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Nobody wants that email.
Desi Creswell: No, and they start filling in the gaps and then all of a sudden with, you know, worst case or like, what are they doing? How are they spending my money or whatever it is. And then that's when you get that tricky email that you then have to respond to. So by being upfront about leading and this is how it's going to go and of course, redirecting them as needed and reminding them, you save yourself so much energy on the back end. And I think that overall, I mean, people do want to be led through the process. I think sometimes there's just an issue with, you know, when we look at these affluent clients, a lot of them are in those C-suite positions. They're used to being the leader. So you have to establish that, no, actually, I'm the leader right now and you can sit back.
Jaquilyn Edwards: That's why you hired me.
Desi Creswell: Right? And they might even say that at the get-go, but then they might forget and default to how they operate in the office. And so then again, it's your job to remind them and guide them back.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yeah.
Desi Creswell: Yep. And I think that really does establish so much trust too. To help people understand how it's going to go and then follow through on how it's going to go, giving them the opportunity to see that what you say is what happens. That is a high trust builder and the more trust you have, the more they're willing to let you run with things, which is great.
Jaquilyn Edwards: And the more trust earlier, the better off you're going to be. Like when that client finally, you can see when they're like, okay, you've got this, right? If that happens earlier, you've got a better project versus if that happens later, or maybe not at all, then you're having more of those tricky situations and it just can be harder for the designer.
Desi Creswell: For sure. All right. And then let's talk a little bit about the third one. We've brought it up a bit, but this is all about applying the values-aligned language and using that to create the stronger trust and connection in the relationship. So tell us a little bit more about that. One of the things you had mentioned when we were just having a pre-conversation about this is going beyond the surface-level values like quality or excellence and really digging so that you can articulate how you want to serve your client. So can you give me a little bit more on that and how a designer could go beyond some of those surface-level phrases that everyone puts on their website?
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yeah. And I don't think there's anything wrong with quality or excellence, right? Like those are hallmarks of great design. But when we talk about human values and like what's connecting us as people, those often go a little bit deeper. Some good examples I have are, you know, just some that have come up in conversations with our clients. Some of them realized, and this is after many years in business, but they realized that they share this value with their clients of really loving supporting local and buying local. And so that has become, that was always a thread in the business before that, but it became something that we kind of amped up with the messaging because we realized that they have this in common and that it's so powerful and that's something different, right? You don't see that everywhere.
Another example was just like mind-body wellness. That's it's out there for sure, but it can be done in a different way that feels very personal to whatever stage of life the designer is at or whatever stage of life their clients are at. It's very different for someone who, you know, has kids or is approaching retirement, right? Like they're different things going on in your life and what you're seeking to support your wellness with in those phases. Another one was outdoor living. One of our clients was like, I realized that all of my clients are very outdoorsy. And even though we didn't like plan up like, oh, you need to be outdoorsy to work with us, right? Like we definitely didn't do that. But we pulled in, we realized like all of her projects have a lot of nature in them, like nature-inspired themes. And so we kind of brought that forth a little bit.
We didn't theme everything, right? It's just bringing these things a little bit forward so it feels like something people can latch onto, right? So there are a lot of different, I could think of so many. Our goal is always with every client just to find different ones, but it's okay if they're not, because it's you. And that's the point you are going to have your own unique combination and your own unique way of expressing those values. And so sure, maybe it's quality, but how does that show up? Like if that happens to be, you're like, well, I'm just so passionate about - like, okay, why? Where's that passion coming from, right? Because I guarantee there's a story there. And so it's pulling out those things and figuring out what those connection points are between the designer and the clients or the design team. Maybe it's a team, right? What are the team dynamics that feel really special? Those are the things that when we can bring that forward in the copy and in the messaging and even the way you're speaking every day, I don't want to make people feel like they have to, or make designers feel like they have to go change all of their copy, right? But again, it's like when you have it in your mind, it like comes out.
Desi Creswell: Yeah, definitely.
Jaquilyn Edwards: It’s conscious.
Desi Creswell: It definitely, yeah, I think so. And even if you're not going to go do anything with your website, I think with all the things that you've shared, of course, having the awareness, but then start to just jot these things down. Because eventually you may want to use some of this to do a website project or maybe it's just start to subtly shift the Instagram posts that you're writing or the blog posts you're doing, the newsletter you're sending, and I actually think that that can be a really great way to just start to test the waters of like, what does it feel like to say these things this way? What kind of response do I get? Does it feel actually aligned to what I'm doing and, you know, really start to flesh out what it is that you want to communicate. And so hopefully that just takes the pressure off for any listener of there's lots of ways to lean into this and it'll all be fruitful in a variety of ways.
Jaquilyn Edwards: I agree. I completely agree. And I was also going to say, I feel like alignment is the big with all of these, with any, with with all three of these things that we've talked about, it's really about alignment. It's not right versus wrong, it's what is right for you. And I think when you find that and when you feel like you're on that track, the confidence that comes from that is so different because you feel grounded and centered and you're not, oh, I know so many designers have told me, yeah, I'm you know, I'm scrolling and I'm just like, ooh, do I need to do that? Do I need to do that? There's this, you know, comparison trap that we get into. And when you're leading from this place of, I feel good about this, I feel aligned with this, you know, I'm speaking to the people that I want to attract and I'm, you know, directing the experience the way I want to, you're not kind of looking with envy or looking with a feeling of less than, you're able to just feel very confident in what you're doing and in all of your conversations as well.
Desi Creswell: Oh yes, 100%. I think it's just being able to come back to that steady, grounded spot where it feels true for you what you're doing. And that does take knowing what's true to begin with, but very worthwhile to investigate that and dig deep for yourself. Now, we've gone over these three pieces here. I think they're all excellent. I hope that the listeners run with it and test some of these things out. We've also talked about just how there's such an impact throughout the entirety of the project. And tell me what some of the results are that you've seen for clients if there's some that we haven't touched on that you'd like to highlight.
Jaquilyn Edwards: We've had clients tell us that they're getting less pushback on rates. We've had clients tell us that every proposal is getting accepted now because the trust has been built there before they've even sent it out. No one has told me this, but I'm confident in our almost 10 years that our our clients have raised their rates. Like absolutely. And I we didn't really talk about, you know, so much like, oh, what does a luxury client need, right? Using that terminology. But doing all of these things like positioning yourself as a leader and focusing on process and experience and not just outcome, those are things that increase the value of what you're doing, the at least the perceived value of what you're doing and that does speak to a luxury client.
And so we've had clients go from, hey, I was booking one room projects and now I'm booking whole home projects or I finally got that dream project that I wanted and now I'm at a builder who can introduce me to more and I feel so confident sending my materials because they represent me. And it's really such a trickle, right? Like it really trickles into the whole design process and again, how those people are circling back through referrals or repeat business or partner referrals. I think it's so worth it because it touches everything in your business, even the back-end systems, right? Like, we've had clients tell us they're more efficient because now they're not doing all this extra work, right? Because they're not getting that micromanage-y or pushback, you know, type of client. So, yeah, there's a lot to be gained here.
Desi Creswell: For sure. And I think that you would likely have some revisions even to your process. Because if you know how you want to lead and guide the project, then you can take a look at how do the things that I'm sending out to onboard, how do the communications that happen between meetings go, all those different things will really, I think get so much more clear and customized to the way that you want to serve your clients versus, you know, just sort of like a, well, this is what, you know, the designer down the street does, which I think can be a great place to just start with systems and processes of what other people do. Okay, I'll try that. And once you get to know yourself and your ideal client better, then you can really start to refine those as well.
Jaquilyn Edwards: And I think refine is the right word because we've had clients who have worked with us to revamp everything, start to finish, marketing to client, you know, send off, right? But I feel like that's very overwhelming for a lot of designers, the idea that I have to overhaul all of this. And I do not think that, you know, everybody has to do that. I think refining is the right word. Adjust what feels right in the moment. If you, now that they have this in their minds, right? Like they can go and say, as they're going through their day-to-day, you know, workflows like, hey, maybe this doesn't fit anymore and maybe that's okay. And so start to do that refinement in a way that feels natural and not like, oh, I have this big project I have to do. That sounds very scary.
Desi Creswell: Thank you for saying that. Yes. Good reminder. Good reminder. All right, Jaquilyn, well this has been such a treat having you on. I'm excited to hear how the designers listening are going to take this and start to play with it. Can you let everyone know where they can find you if they want to chat more about your services, what they heard on the podcast, download some of your incredible free resources, give it all.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yes. So I think our website is probably the best starting place. It’s OchreAndBeige.com and ochre is o-c-h-r-e. I don't know why I was feeling so British when I started this company, but there it is. And if anyone wants to sign up for our newsletter, it’s OchreAndBeige.com/newsletter and I pour a ton of love into that just in trying to, you know, share insights and more free resources and tips and things like that. I spend a lot of time there and I as a writer, that's my outlet.
Desi Creswell: I can attest to that. I'm on the newsletter list and you send some really good things. So, place to be.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Thank you.
Desi Creswell: I also noticed on your website too, the, I think it's like luxury words or phrases that clients need to hear. That looked like a really good one. So basically what I'm saying. Yes. It's our luxury word list. Yes. Is everyone should just go over to the website and poke around and see what suits you.
Jaquilyn Edwards: Yeah. You'll find some things off the beaten track. Yeah, that's my goal.
Desi Creswell: Yes, for sure. All right. Well, thank you again for being here. And for everyone listening, thanks for joining us. I'll be back in two weeks with a new episode. So make sure you're subscribed and that way it just pops right into your feed. And until then, we are both wishing you a beautiful week.
Thanks for joining me for this week's episode of The Interior Design Business CEO. If you want more tips, tools and strategies visit DesiCreswell.com, where you’ll get immediate access to a variety of free resources to help you take what you learn on the podcast and put it into action. And if you love what you’re hearing, be sure to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen to podcasts to ensure you never miss an episode. I’ll talk to you next week.
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