147. PR Strategies for Designers: Strategic Growth & Visibility with Allison Hay
Is your design business ready to take the next step with PR? If you’ve been wondering how public relations could help you grow your firm but aren’t sure when or how to get started, you’re in the right place. In this episode, we dive into the strategies that can take your brand from local visibility to national recognition.
I’m joined by Allison Hay, a seasoned communications strategist and PR expert with over a decade of experience in the design industry. She has worked with top-tier design firms and brands, helping them secure media coverage and amplify their presence. Allison shares her expert advice on how to navigate the world of PR and what you need to do to see measurable results, whether you’re just starting to explore PR or ready to elevate your approach.
We cover how to assess if your firm is ready for national PR, the difference between DIY PR and working with a professional firm, and which metrics are most important to track for measuring PR success. Allison also discusses how PR can help achieve other business goals like brand partnerships, speaking opportunities, and content creation for your social media and marketing efforts. This episode is a must-listen for anyone ready to take their design business to the next level with strategic PR.
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What You’ll Discover from this Episode:
How to determine if it's the right time to invest in PR for your design firm.
The difference between DIY PR and professional PR support.
How to build relationships with journalists and regional publications.
Which metrics to track to measure your PR success.
How combining project features and expert insights creates consistent PR opportunities.
How PR supports goals beyond media placements, like partnerships and speaking opportunities.
Why a six-month timeline is key for seeing PR results and evaluating success.
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Full Episode Transcript:
Hey designer, you're listening to episode 147. Today I'm bringing you a conversation with Allison Hay, a communication strategist, writer, and PR expert with over a decade of experience in the design industry. Allison was a fellow speaker at the Midwest Designer Retreat, and let me tell you, I was so impressed with her depth of knowledge and also her ability to break down the world of PR so that designers can really get clear on what type of press is best for them, depending on their specific goals.
This episode is for you if you've never outsourced PR, but you're interested, have maybe dipped your toe in a little bit with some DIY, but haven't been consistent or haven't gotten enough traction, or if you're already doing PR consistently, but you want to know what your next steps are to make it work better for you. Allison has so many great insights, and I'm so excited for you to tune in.
Welcome to The Interior Design Business CEO, the only show for designers who are ready to confidently run and grow their businesses without the stress and anxiety. If you're ready to develop a bigger vision for your interior design business, free up your time, and streamline your days for productivity and profit, you're in the right place.
I'm Desi Creswell, an award-winning interior designer and certified life and business coach. I help interior designers just like you stop feeling overwhelmed so they can build profitable businesses they love to run. Are you ready to confidently lead your business, clients, and projects? Let's go.
Desi Creswell: Hello designer, welcome back to the podcast. I have another guest today, which is very exciting. We're going to be chatting with Allison Hay, and she is a communications and PR expert. I'm going to let her introduce herself, but it's going to be a good one. So welcome, Allison. I'm so excited to have this conversation today.
Allison Hay: Thank you, Desi. Me too. Thanks for having me.
Desi: Yes, of course. So we got introduced to each other at the Midwest Design Retreat, which we both spoke at. That was kind of a long time ago now at this point, but it was in May, and I was just so impressed with how accessible and easy you made PR seem. Not that PR is necessarily like anyone can do it, but I do think it can be an intimidating thing for designers who maybe haven't dipped their toe in it at all, or for those who they've gotten kind of a little bit of a taste of it of maybe they've gotten in a local publication or maybe they've gotten a, what would that be called? Like a, not a clip. Tell me what this would be where you can like be one of the experts that responds to a question or something like that.
Allison: Yes, expert insight opportunities.
Desi: Yes. So they've maybe had something like that, but they're looking to expand their reach, and I know that you're the perfect person to talk to about this. So, Allison, before we dive in, why don't you give everyone an intro to who you are and what you do?
Allison: Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Desi. I'm excited to be here. My name is Allison Hay. I'm the founder of Allison Hay PR, and my business amplifies brands and firms in the design industry. So that includes raising awareness of your firm to your target customers and audiences as well as elevating your profile.
And what does this look like in practice? It looks like getting press placements for your firm. So whether that's project placements, home tours, or, you know, these expert insight opportunities in the media, it can look like brand partnerships or speaking opportunities. It can look like podcast interviews, which we love. So it can look like a whole bunch of different things, but basically it's working with third parties to get your firm out there in the world and share all of your wonderful work so that you can increase your business.
Desi: Awesome. That is a great overview. And you've got some pretty awesome names in your experience list. Tell everyone just, let's give some street cred here, who you've worked with.
Allison: Yes. So, before starting my own business about a year ago, I worked my way up at various agencies in New York City, exclusively doing design PR. So I've worked with best-in-class brands and design firms, including Workshop APD, as well as brands like Firstdibs, Steelcase, Kohler, Waterworks, Arteriors, The Shade Store, and more. And The Shade Store was actually my biggest client to date since I started my own business.
Desi: Amazing. That's some good name-dropping we just did. I love it. Good. All right. So one of the things we had kind of been talking about before we scheduled this was like, let's see what everyone wants to hear about most. So we did an Instagram poll, and thank you for everyone who participated in that. So that's going to be informing what we talk about today. But to frame this conversation a little bit further, one of the main questions we'll be asking or main questions we'll be answering is, should I invest in PR? Is now the right time to invest in PR? And then I think a big piece of it is, how do I make this worthwhile or know if it's the right method for helping me grow my firm?
So that's the ground we're going to cover, and I think we should just dive right in. What do you think?
Allison: I love it. Let's do it.
Desi: So I think the very first question we have to answer is, how do you know when it's the right time to hire out PR? And maybe you can speak to this to two different ways of maybe it's to someone who's hiring PR for the first time, or maybe someone's already done some PR and they're ready to invest again, or think about that as their next step.
Allison: I love this question, and it's something I'm really passionate about answering and raising awareness on because I think, like you said, Desi, PR can be kind of confusing, and there are a lot of question marks about the return on investment and what it even means. So I think that the best time for designers to start working with me as a publicist would be when they've already had some level of success with placing projects in regional media and they're looking to secure more opportunities at the national level.
And the reason I like to say this is a good kind of opportunity to start thinking about outsourcing PR is for three essential reasons. One, projects need to be at a certain level of editorial caliber for me to have success with pitching them. And if you're already able to get regional placements on your own, that's a really great sign. Two, you need to be able to invest in professional project photography that is shot in an editorial way, so working with an interiors photographer, not a portrait photographer who is doing projects on the side. And again, if you're getting regional attention, this means you're probably already taking the right steps on the photography and asset front.
And then three, regional media is a great starting point for designers to embark on what I like to call DIY PR. And later in this episode, Desi, I think we could probably talk about some tips for DIY PR, kind of doing it yourself. But big picture, regional media is at your doorstep. They're in your own backyard. You're in that same area, and you have the ability to forge relationships with those journalists and editors. National media are often based in New York. That's where I am, and it's much more competitive to get national press attention because everyone in the country is buying for national press attention, and it's much easier if you already have relationships in place.
I spent the last 10 years of my career at top agencies building those relationships, and I can leverage my connections as well as my knowledge of the media landscape in order to drive that national press coverage for designers, as well as offer guidance on how to utilize your assets to deliver the strongest return on your investment throughout the process. So again, to recap, I think when you already have a certain level of regional press placement success and you're looking to break into national, that's a really good time to start outsourcing PR.
Desi: Okay, yeah, that's a really good overview. And I mean, I think let's just talk a little bit about DIY PR right now since we're on the topic. How do you suggest someone go about doing that?
Allison: Yes. So, designers, I know you're entrepreneurial and creative. That's how you got into this business. PR is a lot less intimidating than I think people can make it out to be. It's all based on relationships, just like your project work is too. So if you're considering regional magazines that you really like, you can open up the magazine, flip to the pages. In the beginning, you're going to see a masthead that has all of the lists of editors who worked on the magazine, and you can find their email addresses.
So I definitely encourage cold reaching out to some of the editors. I would look at a home editor or maybe the editor-in-chief if it's a smaller regional magazine, and introduce yourself and your firm and share some of your project photography and see if they want to meet for coffee or, you know, if you're attending a local design event, look out and see if there's an editor there. I'm sure you can find their photos online and just introduce yourself. It can be a lot more simple than I think we can make it out to be in our heads. Like journalists, they want to know you, they want to discover your good work, and they're always on the lookout for new talent.
Desi: Yeah, and I think one of the things I'll just insert here, which I'm guessing you'll agree with me on this one, but what I found when I was a designer and looking for press and just even press now in my coaching business, I'm always thinking about how can I make it easy for somebody to say yes to me? So, yes, absolutely, 100% develop the relationships and don't go in there being like, what can you do for me the moment you meet them?
And once you've started to cultivate that relationship, think about what could be the storyline I would present to them. Why would this be helpful for their magazine or whatever press you're trying to get in particular? Because the journalists are just so busy, and they get so many pitches. And so, from my perspective, when it's you presenting the project to whatever it is, whatever outlet you're looking for, you have to remember that, yes, you know your business intimately. You've spent the last year or two on this project, and they have no idea who you are or anything about this project or why they should care about it.
And so, just like us, we're busy, and anytime we have to spend the mental energy to think hard and fill in gaps, we're more likely to ignore it. So I'll just throw that in. That's been my experience, and also for other clients that, you know, I've helped with some of their own pitching. It's really helpful of like, how can I make this easy to be a yes?
Allison: Yes, Desi, 100%. I would say get that elevator pitch down. It's probably very similar to what you're sharing with clients. And then you do already have to have that professionally shot photography in order to even approach regional media as well. And if you're looking for tips on how to find the right photographer, hint, it's in the magazine. You can see what photographers they're covering the work of, and then you can check out their work online and talk to them that way, and see if they can shoot your projects.
So I would say definitely approach it with gratitude. You know, like you're saying, Desi, have your elevator pitch down. Make sure you're being really thoughtful of the journalist's time, but also consider them a human. You know, they want to get to know you. They're not obligated to, but if you give them some really compelling things to chew on, then they're going to be excited to get to know you better.
Desi: For sure. Okay, I think that was a good side road over to DIY. I want to return back to hiring it out for a professional PR firm like yourself. Now, what I've seen in the last few years is there seems to be tons of firms now who are working with designers specifically for PR. And of course, through the history of time, there's been lots of PR agencies in general. So if a designer is looking to engage someone to support them with getting press, what do you think are some important things that they should be looking for in their search?
Allison: Yes, and this is a great question. I think transparency is really important for PR. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors out there. The really tough thing about PR is that nothing is ever guaranteed, which is sort of the bane of everyone's existence, but also so exciting when you do get that press placement.
You know, everything about PR is up to the editor's discretion. They can choose to select your project, or they can pass. So part of, you know, my job as a publicist is to advise you on what projects are going to be worth putting forward and pitching, and what, you know, steps we can take to get other projects or photography that's maybe not quite editorial ready to a place where we can work with it more.
So I would say looking at transparency is really important. I think guidance is really important. You want to work with someone who has experience working with media, has years of experience, has connections, has experience with your type of firm's work. And I think personality fit is also important.
You know, one of the things, Desi, that I love about your content and your guidance is that you're very reassuring and you help your clients, you know, really feel confidence and sort of reduce the sense of overwhelm. PR can be a little bit overwhelming, and so you want to look for a personality in a publicist that can help you kind of be guided through and you want to make sure there's a good fit there because they're going to be sharing a lot of strategic advice and you want to make sure that you guys resonate with one another.
Desi: Yeah, for sure. And as you're saying that, I'm thinking how important that is in anything that you outsource. And I think really, too, like a quality of a professional that you're engaging with is, do they meet you where you are? So do you feel comfortable asking the stupid questions? I mean, there's no stupid questions, but like you're going to tell yourself it's stupid or I should know this or I don't want them to know that I don't know this. So are you comfortable asking questions? Are they responsive and kind, and understanding when you have a request? Like all those types of things to be looking for when you're starting to vet whoever it is that you have a consultation with or are eyeing up online, I think is really important.
Allison: Totally. And I also think it's important to check that they're not promising too much too soon. Again, like I said, PR is very subjective and nothing's ever guaranteed. So if they're telling you can get X placement, you know, right away, that may not be as realistic. So I also would look for someone who's going to work with you to set KPIs or goals at the beginning of a program so that you can track and make sure you're actually hitting those milestones and getting that ROI out of your PR program.
Desi: Mm, I love that. And that's a great segue to the question of like, how do you ensure that you get a return on your investment? And I think we need to back it up just a step, even, and say, what is it that you want to get out of this opportunity or opportunities that you're cultivating? And we've been talking a lot about press placement in terms of getting published in a magazine. Maybe you want to be in the Wall Street Journal home section, something like that. And other people, they might want to start to develop brand collaborations. So being clear on what's the outcome you want to create. I know I mentioned a few. Are there other ways that you've seen clients use PR as the result that they're looking to achieve?
Allison: Yes. So the number one goal of PR is to raise awareness and visibility of your firm, and so that helps you connect with audiences that maybe aren't following you already. And so it helps you reach more potential homeowner clients. But as you said, Desi, it can also help you reach potential brand partners. A lot of designers are interested in getting into licensed collections or maybe show home opportunities. And so PR can help elevate your profile, not only to potential homeowner clients, but also to potential brand partners or show home partners to bring more opportunities your way. So it's really important to have the conversation with your publicist about what your goals are, and then they can help you tap into those audiences.
I would say another benefit of PR is all of these types of things give you great fodder for your social channels. So anytime you get a press placement, that's something you can post on your Instagram account. Anytime you win an award, that's great for your social channels or your newsletter list. It's a great timely hook to, you know, reach out to your subscriber list and share that. So it can really help provide, you know, content and material for your own marketing as well.
Desi: Mmm, great reminder. We have to give the leverage there. Right? You're investing the time and money in getting the press to begin with, so let's do something with it. I love it. And do you, I'm just curious, do you provide insights or suggestions about how a designer might leverage the press they're already getting so they get even more impact out of it? Is that something that you help people with as well?
Allison: Yes, so I think it is really important to work with a publicist who's going to advise on how to best promote the press placements you get. And actually, one of my pet peeves is when designers win an award and then want to share out a press release about winning the award because other magazines are not going to share that you won an award with another magazine. So, yes, when you win the award, it's something great to put on your own channels, but there's not additional press we can get on the fact that you won the award. So that's all stuff that your publicist can help you with and make sure you're taking the right strategy there.
Desi: Yeah, and I think what you're really speaking to is designers think about things in a certain way, right? We all have our own thought processes that are based on our creative skill sets and our business experience, and very much in our lane. And so when you bring somebody else in, you're getting a different way of thinking that has been cultivated over years and years of experience that are going to help you spot things, or go, actually, that doesn't make sense, that is just not in your awareness, and that's so valuable.
Allison: Totally. And another thing that I help designers with is packaging your work so that it resonates best externally. So, say you're a great designer, but you're kind of having trouble with your marketing, you feel like your story isn't cohesive, you feel like your photography doesn't match your bio. That's all stuff I can help with, too.
An entry point service that I actually offer for design firms is brand voice and copywriting services to help them figure out the way they want to be talking externally on all of their platforms. And I can do firm bios, principal bios, and help with any content on the website to make sure that the message you're conveying is the right one and feels on brand and accurate, and then we can also talk about photography. And honestly, hiring a stylist can really help your photography match the level of work that you're seeing when you walk into that beautiful project.
Desi: Mmm, I love that. Yeah, and I think that's something that's really unique about the way that your firm is structured. I haven't seen that really a lot where there's the PR aspect, but then also the ability to help with the messaging. I want to go back to just return on investment. So when we think about, okay, this is the result or results that I want to create, you mentioned that you advise people to look for, does this person help you track the KPIs? So tell me a little bit about what are some of the key metrics that you might want to be tracking, or how do you look at is this investment something that I am getting a return on?
Allison: Yes. So in the PR space, we like to joke that PR is both an art and a science. As kind of creative and mercurial as it is, we do like to try and put numbers behind it to actually make it make sense. So there are a couple of key metrics that I like to measure in order to make sure my programs are effective for clients. The number one metric is how many placements are we getting per month. So I keep a press tracker for my clients where I track all of the placements, and then at the end of the month, we do a share out of like, okay, you were mentioned in these three national outlets this month. That's amazing. You got two home tours and a quote in AD Pro this month. That's amazing. And so the number of placements and the kind of cadence of how often you're being mentioned is metric number one.
And then metric number two is how many people are seeing those placements. And so that is calculated by looking at the reach of the publication. So for print magazines, that's going to be the publication circulation, how many subscribers do they have? And then for digital media, that's going to be the unique monthly visitors or UVM. So I tally up those numbers, and if you're getting national placements, that number will be in the millions on a monthly basis. I've had clients that are in the billions of impressions by the end of the year, depending on how robust their PR program is.
So we definitely want to make sure we're looking at the numbers and making sure that there's growth year over year and any type of program as well. When you're starting out, you may not necessarily set KPIs for the first, you know, six months because you want to kind of establish a baseline, but then definitely after that, you want to make sure you're trying to improve every next cycle. So it's really important to be tracking all of those numbers and making sure that you're experiencing growth, especially if you have like a really big announcement or, say, for example, you have a book launch or a design shop opening or a collection launch. That should be a moment where you're expecting those numbers to increase even more because you have a timely hook that PR can really jump off of.
Desi: Okay, that makes sense. And just in terms of timeline, I like to think about when is it that I'm going to re-decide on something. So I decide the strategy, I decide what I'm going to track, and then I give myself a period of time for the strategy to show what it's going to show, and then make a new decision. And so I'm thinking about that in terms of tracking the PR. You know, how much runway do you need to give? You said six months to get a little traction, but then like how long do you think is worthwhile to say, I'm going to go all in on this and then look at really what it's producing for me?
Allison: I would say definitely six months minimum is the ideal, and that's partly because print placements take so long to run. If you're thinking about it, a print magazine runs every month or every two months. So, from the time it takes to introduce your firm to the editors to the time it takes for them to have a story that you would be a fit for, and then the magazine comes out four or five months later, that's a pretty long runway. So in an ideal case scenario, you're investing in PR for a year and then re-evaluating what it's doing for your firm.
But I would say definitely minimum six months to see traction. I do offer contracts that are starting at four months, and that's just because digital placements can come out a little bit faster. That also can be appropriate if you have more of like a project level of work rather than a retainer, and a project type of initiative would be something that has a specific start and end date. So, for example, a book launch or a collection launch, something that has a timely start and end date, not just ongoing project pitching and things like that.
Desi: Okay, got it. What do you think about tracking projects that come to you from a consumer standpoint based on PR? Tell me a little bit more about how you see press impacting a designer's ability to get bigger and better projects, and a little bit about that. Because I know that's a thing that most designers are always looking to level up, and I know sometimes people see PR as a way to do that. Others say it can be a little bit challenging, and I know it's also a little bit hard to track. So give me your take on that.
Allison: Yes, it is hard to track, and I think that can be a big roadblock for firms that are debating if there is ROI with PR or not. I would say that regional media can sometimes be easier to track because you're getting press coverage in the market where you already have a presence, and it's something that's a little bit more conversational, like, oh, did you see the home tour in XYZ regional magazine? But national media is how your firm is going to start expanding your visibility and get those bigger, juicier projects.
So I would say that's really important if you're looking to up-level your firm and perhaps expand out of the market that you're already in. Say you want to start taking on more vacation home projects or just those bigger ticket projects that are, you know, frankly, more lucrative for your firm. National media is going to be really helpful for you to get in front of those sort of bigger fish homeowners. But that said, it is, as you've mentioned, Desi, very hard to draw the exact correlation between how to have those two things work together.
I would say that one thing that's a little easier to tell is when you're getting digital press placements, you can see if there are any bumps in your site traffic from the articles linking back to your website. So I would definitely say that again, before you hire PR, make sure you have a website that you're really proud of so that you can be tracking on the back end how that's working for you.
Desi: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, as I'm hearing, hearing you say some of these things, it's like, what's the balance between perfectionism? Because I know so many of my designer clients struggle with that, of like making sure you have the website where you want it to be, making sure the photography is where it needs to be, making sure you've got your bio where it needs to be.
What would you say is from your objective perspective? Because sometimes it's, it's difficult to see ourselves. I like to say, it's hard to read the label from inside the bottle. So sometimes, do you ever just hop on a call with designers and they can get like real talk of, am I over-perfecting this? Am I thinking I'm never meeting my own like benchmarks, but actually I'm ready? Or is it like, yeah, I'll be really kind and say, nope, you need to get these things taken care of before you're ready to actually invest in this.
Allison: It's so funny you say this, Desi, because I feel like I've actually had more of the opposite lately with designers. Like I've had some calls with designers who are getting the regional press, they have a strong web presence, and they're considering if it makes sense for them to invest in PR to get more national press, but they're not quite ready to pull the trigger yet. And I think there's sort of a comfort level with how much risk you want to take that you have to evaluate. I know you have an episode, I think on that too. But I would say if you think you're ready, you probably are. And if you're not sure, your publicist should be able to tell you.
Again, I typically am looking at designers who have already had some level of success with regional media, and that's a really good benchmark for me to see, okay, you have the good photography, you have your kind of basic narrative down, we're at a point where I can work with you to help you break into national. But I also think that as brands, we all evolve constantly. I'm going through a rebrand myself after only a year of being in business, and I don't think you should have that stop you from trying and seeing where you land. You know, I think we're all entrepreneurs here, and at some point, you have to give something a shot and take a little bit of a risk and see if it's worth it before you can necessarily evaluate.
And so again, I would not invest in PR if you're at a point where you really need new projects. PR is not going to be an immediate driver of new business for you. It's going to help that, but again, the results are not apples to apples. So you need to kind of already be in a good, stable place with your business where you feel comfortable investing in PR, and you're really just trying to get those better projects or projects in new markets or kind of expand the way your profile is positioned instead of necessarily like just getting your foot in the door.
Desi: Yeah. Okay. I'm really glad we talked about that because I think that is something that, you know, whether you have some perfectionistic tendencies at play, which I think so many of us in these creative fields do, or even just it's like we are constantly evolving as business owners. So by the time you get the new website, sometimes we're already like in the process of becoming that next version of ourselves, so we get in that habit of like, oh, well, I'll wait until then before I take action on this. And I think just having someone to reflect back clearly, like, yes, this is the time, this is how the world sees you. And that's a little bit different from maybe where you've mentally caught up to how you see yourself. It can be so helpful to have another person give you that reassurance or just validation that you feel shaky giving yourself. So, thanks for going there with me.
Allison: Totally.
Desi: Okay, so we've covered some really good things. Is there anything that you for sure wanted to make sure we talked about today that we haven't gotten to yet?
Allison: I don't think we've talked about what a good PR program sort of basis should look like yet.
Desi: Okay, so tell me, what does it look like?
Allison: So, I think basically for PR, there are a lot of different things that you can add on and a lot of avenues you can explore. There are awards, speaking opportunities, brand partnerships, you know, there's, there are tons of different ways that PR can support your business, but I would say a core program would be a mix of project pitching and expert insights opportunities. So project pitching is what we all love and dream of, that big, beautiful feature of your project in AD in print, flipping through the pages, seeing that gorgeous project featured, that's kind of what every designer dreams of.
So that's definitely a big part of a PR program, but those types of pitches take forever, and Desi, I mean a really long time, like months, sometimes over a year before those projects can come out. And that's also your very best work. That's like your best project you've ever done. So that can be kind of disheartening when you're waiting so long for your press placement to come out because, again, those types of press placements need to be exclusive. So you really can't publish those photographs anywhere else. And that's again, something your publicist can help advise on.
But in addition to project pitching, that's why we also have the expert insights opportunities. So on a much more regular basis, journalists will be writing roundups of like seven top green rooms to draw inspiration from or, you know, the top pink colors, the top shades of white pink color. And so different designers can comment on this, and that's something that you can submit to a lot more regularly and kind of have a lot more consistent press coverage on a monthly and sometimes even weekly basis for your firm. And so there are other ways to get in AD, and all of these big national outlets, besides having that one huge project that you've invested in all of the project photography for, get placed. You can get in a lot more often than that with this expert insights track. So I like to pair the two tracks so we have the big amazing feature stories as well as that kind of more consistent coverage coming out.
Desi: Yeah, and I think that speaks so well to how do you leverage the press that you're getting or how do you use PR to create content for whether it's your newsletter, your social media, all of those things. So you've got more of that popcorn effect versus, I don't know, what would be the other food? What would be something that would take a really long time and be massive? I don't know.
Allison: Christmas dinner.
Desi: Yes, Christmas dinner. Yes. You've got Christmas dinner, and you've got popcor,n and both are amazing. So I love that you pair that together. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Allison. This has really been great. Can you take a sec and tell everyone where they can find you if they want to check you out, if they want to reach out, talk to you about what it might like, what it might be like to work together?
Allison: Yes, please reach out to me. My Instagram is Allison Hay PR. I am working on a website redesign. My current URL is hayitsallison.com, but I'm migrating to allisonhaypr.com. We'll see if that's out by the time this podcast episode comes out. And you can also email me at alison@heyitsallison.com.
Desi: All right, perfect. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. I think this has been a great one. And I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. It is going to be the second-to-last truth in the What I Know for Sure CEO Summer School series. And this truth is diving into how to solve the right problems in your business so you're not spinning your wheels and spending unnecessary time, energy, and money in the business.
So make sure you're subscribed to the show, and we'll make sure that gets put right in your feed. Until then, I'm wishing you a beautiful week.
Thanks for joining me for this week's episode of The Interior Design Business CEO. If you want more tips, tools and strategies visit DesiCreswell.com, where you’ll get immediate access to a variety of free resources to help you take what you learn on the podcast and put it into action. And if you love what you’re hearing, be sure to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen to podcasts to ensure you never miss an episode. I’ll talk to you next week.
This episode is for you if you've never outsourced PR, but you're interested, have maybe dipped your toe in a little bit with some DIY, but haven't been consistent or haven't gotten enough traction, or if you're already doing PR consistently, but you want to know what your next steps are to make it work better for you. Allison has so many great insights, and I'm so excited for you to tune in.
Welcome to The Interior Design Business CEO, the only show for designers who are ready to confidently run and grow their businesses without the stress and anxiety. If you're ready to develop a bigger vision for your interior design business, free up your time, and streamline your days for productivity and profit, you're in the right place.
I'm Desi Creswell, an award-winning interior designer and certified life and business coach. I help interior designers just like you stop feeling overwhelmed so they can build profitable businesses they love to run. Are you ready to confidently lead your business, clients, and projects? Let's go.
Desi Creswell: Hello designer, welcome back to the podcast. I have another guest today, which is very exciting. We're going to be chatting with Allison Hay, and she is a communications and PR expert. I'm going to let her introduce herself, but it's going to be a good one. So welcome, Allison. I'm so excited to have this conversation today.
Allison Hay: Thank you, Desi. Me too. Thanks for having me.
Desi: Yes, of course. So we got introduced to each other at the Midwest Design Retreat, which we both spoke at. That was kind of a long time ago now at this point, but it was in May, and I was just so impressed with how accessible and easy you made PR seem. Not that PR is necessarily like anyone can do it, but I do think it can be an intimidating thing for designers who maybe haven't dipped their toe in it at all, or for those who they've gotten kind of a little bit of a taste of it of maybe they've gotten in a local publication or maybe they've gotten a, what would that be called? Like a, not a clip. Tell me what this would be where you can like be one of the experts that responds to a question or something like that.
Allison: Yes, expert insight opportunities.
Desi: Yes. So they've maybe had something like that, but they're looking to expand their reach, and I know that you're the perfect person to talk to about this. So, Allison, before we dive in, why don't you give everyone an intro to who you are and what you do?
Allison: Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Desi. I'm excited to be here. My name is Allison Hay. I'm the founder of Allison Hay PR, and my business amplifies brands and firms in the design industry. So that includes raising awareness of your firm to your target customers and audiences as well as elevating your profile.
And what does this look like in practice? It looks like getting press placements for your firm. So whether that's project placements, home tours, or, you know, these expert insight opportunities in the media, it can look like brand partnerships or speaking opportunities. It can look like podcast interviews, which we love. So it can look like a whole bunch of different things, but basically it's working with third parties to get your firm out there in the world and share all of your wonderful work so that you can increase your business.
Desi: Awesome. That is a great overview. And you've got some pretty awesome names in your experience list. Tell everyone just, let's give some street cred here, who you've worked with.
Allison: Yes. So, before starting my own business about a year ago, I worked my way up at various agencies in New York City, exclusively doing design PR. So I've worked with best-in-class brands and design firms, including Workshop APD, as well as brands like Firstdibs, Steelcase, Kohler, Waterworks, Arteriors, The Shade Store, and more. And The Shade Store was actually my biggest client to date since I started my own business.
Desi: Amazing. That's some good name-dropping we just did. I love it. Good. All right. So one of the things we had kind of been talking about before we scheduled this was like, let's see what everyone wants to hear about most. So we did an Instagram poll, and thank you for everyone who participated in that. So that's going to be informing what we talk about today. But to frame this conversation a little bit further, one of the main questions we'll be asking or main questions we'll be answering is, should I invest in PR? Is now the right time to invest in PR? And then I think a big piece of it is, how do I make this worthwhile or know if it's the right method for helping me grow my firm?
So that's the ground we're going to cover, and I think we should just dive right in. What do you think?
Allison: I love it. Let's do it.
Desi: So I think the very first question we have to answer is, how do you know when it's the right time to hire out PR? And maybe you can speak to this to two different ways of maybe it's to someone who's hiring PR for the first time, or maybe someone's already done some PR and they're ready to invest again, or think about that as their next step.
Allison: I love this question, and it's something I'm really passionate about answering and raising awareness on because I think, like you said, Desi, PR can be kind of confusing, and there are a lot of question marks about the return on investment and what it even means. So I think that the best time for designers to start working with me as a publicist would be when they've already had some level of success with placing projects in regional media and they're looking to secure more opportunities at the national level.
And the reason I like to say this is a good kind of opportunity to start thinking about outsourcing PR is for three essential reasons. One, projects need to be at a certain level of editorial caliber for me to have success with pitching them. And if you're already able to get regional placements on your own, that's a really great sign. Two, you need to be able to invest in professional project photography that is shot in an editorial way, so working with an interiors photographer, not a portrait photographer who is doing projects on the side. And again, if you're getting regional attention, this means you're probably already taking the right steps on the photography and asset front.
And then three, regional media is a great starting point for designers to embark on what I like to call DIY PR. And later in this episode, Desi, I think we could probably talk about some tips for DIY PR, kind of doing it yourself. But big picture, regional media is at your doorstep. They're in your own backyard. You're in that same area, and you have the ability to forge relationships with those journalists and editors. National media are often based in New York. That's where I am, and it's much more competitive to get national press attention because everyone in the country is buying for national press attention, and it's much easier if you already have relationships in place.
I spent the last 10 years of my career at top agencies building those relationships, and I can leverage my connections as well as my knowledge of the media landscape in order to drive that national press coverage for designers, as well as offer guidance on how to utilize your assets to deliver the strongest return on your investment throughout the process. So again, to recap, I think when you already have a certain level of regional press placement success and you're looking to break into national, that's a really good time to start outsourcing PR.
Desi: Okay, yeah, that's a really good overview. And I mean, I think let's just talk a little bit about DIY PR right now since we're on the topic. How do you suggest someone go about doing that?
Allison: Yes. So, designers, I know you're entrepreneurial and creative. That's how you got into this business. PR is a lot less intimidating than I think people can make it out to be. It's all based on relationships, just like your project work is too. So if you're considering regional magazines that you really like, you can open up the magazine, flip to the pages. In the beginning, you're going to see a masthead that has all of the lists of editors who worked on the magazine, and you can find their email addresses.
So I definitely encourage cold reaching out to some of the editors. I would look at a home editor or maybe the editor-in-chief if it's a smaller regional magazine, and introduce yourself and your firm and share some of your project photography and see if they want to meet for coffee or, you know, if you're attending a local design event, look out and see if there's an editor there. I'm sure you can find their photos online and just introduce yourself. It can be a lot more simple than I think we can make it out to be in our heads. Like journalists, they want to know you, they want to discover your good work, and they're always on the lookout for new talent.
Desi: Yeah, and I think one of the things I'll just insert here, which I'm guessing you'll agree with me on this one, but what I found when I was a designer and looking for press and just even press now in my coaching business, I'm always thinking about how can I make it easy for somebody to say yes to me? So, yes, absolutely, 100% develop the relationships and don't go in there being like, what can you do for me the moment you meet them?
And once you've started to cultivate that relationship, think about what could be the storyline I would present to them. Why would this be helpful for their magazine or whatever press you're trying to get in particular? Because the journalists are just so busy, and they get so many pitches. And so, from my perspective, when it's you presenting the project to whatever it is, whatever outlet you're looking for, you have to remember that, yes, you know your business intimately. You've spent the last year or two on this project, and they have no idea who you are or anything about this project or why they should care about it.
And so, just like us, we're busy, and anytime we have to spend the mental energy to think hard and fill in gaps, we're more likely to ignore it. So I'll just throw that in. That's been my experience, and also for other clients that, you know, I've helped with some of their own pitching. It's really helpful of like, how can I make this easy to be a yes?
Allison: Yes, Desi, 100%. I would say get that elevator pitch down. It's probably very similar to what you're sharing with clients. And then you do already have to have that professionally shot photography in order to even approach regional media as well. And if you're looking for tips on how to find the right photographer, hint, it's in the magazine. You can see what photographers they're covering the work of, and then you can check out their work online and talk to them that way, and see if they can shoot your projects.
So I would say definitely approach it with gratitude. You know, like you're saying, Desi, have your elevator pitch down. Make sure you're being really thoughtful of the journalist's time, but also consider them a human. You know, they want to get to know you. They're not obligated to, but if you give them some really compelling things to chew on, then they're going to be excited to get to know you better.
Desi: For sure. Okay, I think that was a good side road over to DIY. I want to return back to hiring it out for a professional PR firm like yourself. Now, what I've seen in the last few years is there seems to be tons of firms now who are working with designers specifically for PR. And of course, through the history of time, there's been lots of PR agencies in general. So if a designer is looking to engage someone to support them with getting press, what do you think are some important things that they should be looking for in their search?
Allison: Yes, and this is a great question. I think transparency is really important for PR. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors out there. The really tough thing about PR is that nothing is ever guaranteed, which is sort of the bane of everyone's existence, but also so exciting when you do get that press placement.
You know, everything about PR is up to the editor's discretion. They can choose to select your project, or they can pass. So part of, you know, my job as a publicist is to advise you on what projects are going to be worth putting forward and pitching, and what, you know, steps we can take to get other projects or photography that's maybe not quite editorial ready to a place where we can work with it more.
So I would say looking at transparency is really important. I think guidance is really important. You want to work with someone who has experience working with media, has years of experience, has connections, has experience with your type of firm's work. And I think personality fit is also important.
You know, one of the things, Desi, that I love about your content and your guidance is that you're very reassuring and you help your clients, you know, really feel confidence and sort of reduce the sense of overwhelm. PR can be a little bit overwhelming, and so you want to look for a personality in a publicist that can help you kind of be guided through and you want to make sure there's a good fit there because they're going to be sharing a lot of strategic advice and you want to make sure that you guys resonate with one another.
Desi: Yeah, for sure. And as you're saying that, I'm thinking how important that is in anything that you outsource. And I think really, too, like a quality of a professional that you're engaging with is, do they meet you where you are? So do you feel comfortable asking the stupid questions? I mean, there's no stupid questions, but like you're going to tell yourself it's stupid or I should know this or I don't want them to know that I don't know this. So are you comfortable asking questions? Are they responsive and kind, and understanding when you have a request? Like all those types of things to be looking for when you're starting to vet whoever it is that you have a consultation with or are eyeing up online, I think is really important.
Allison: Totally. And I also think it's important to check that they're not promising too much too soon. Again, like I said, PR is very subjective and nothing's ever guaranteed. So if they're telling you can get X placement, you know, right away, that may not be as realistic. So I also would look for someone who's going to work with you to set KPIs or goals at the beginning of a program so that you can track and make sure you're actually hitting those milestones and getting that ROI out of your PR program.
Desi: Mm, I love that. And that's a great segue to the question of like, how do you ensure that you get a return on your investment? And I think we need to back it up just a step, even, and say, what is it that you want to get out of this opportunity or opportunities that you're cultivating? And we've been talking a lot about press placement in terms of getting published in a magazine. Maybe you want to be in the Wall Street Journal home section, something like that. And other people, they might want to start to develop brand collaborations. So being clear on what's the outcome you want to create. I know I mentioned a few. Are there other ways that you've seen clients use PR as the result that they're looking to achieve?
Allison: Yes. So the number one goal of PR is to raise awareness and visibility of your firm, and so that helps you connect with audiences that maybe aren't following you already. And so it helps you reach more potential homeowner clients. But as you said, Desi, it can also help you reach potential brand partners. A lot of designers are interested in getting into licensed collections or maybe show home opportunities. And so PR can help elevate your profile, not only to potential homeowner clients, but also to potential brand partners or show home partners to bring more opportunities your way. So it's really important to have the conversation with your publicist about what your goals are, and then they can help you tap into those audiences.
I would say another benefit of PR is all of these types of things give you great fodder for your social channels. So anytime you get a press placement, that's something you can post on your Instagram account. Anytime you win an award, that's great for your social channels or your newsletter list. It's a great timely hook to, you know, reach out to your subscriber list and share that. So it can really help provide, you know, content and material for your own marketing as well.
Desi: Mmm, great reminder. We have to give the leverage there. Right? You're investing the time and money in getting the press to begin with, so let's do something with it. I love it. And do you, I'm just curious, do you provide insights or suggestions about how a designer might leverage the press they're already getting so they get even more impact out of it? Is that something that you help people with as well?
Allison: Yes, so I think it is really important to work with a publicist who's going to advise on how to best promote the press placements you get. And actually, one of my pet peeves is when designers win an award and then want to share out a press release about winning the award because other magazines are not going to share that you won an award with another magazine. So, yes, when you win the award, it's something great to put on your own channels, but there's not additional press we can get on the fact that you won the award. So that's all stuff that your publicist can help you with and make sure you're taking the right strategy there.
Desi: Yeah, and I think what you're really speaking to is designers think about things in a certain way, right? We all have our own thought processes that are based on our creative skill sets and our business experience, and very much in our lane. And so when you bring somebody else in, you're getting a different way of thinking that has been cultivated over years and years of experience that are going to help you spot things, or go, actually, that doesn't make sense, that is just not in your awareness, and that's so valuable.
Allison: Totally. And another thing that I help designers with is packaging your work so that it resonates best externally. So, say you're a great designer, but you're kind of having trouble with your marketing, you feel like your story isn't cohesive, you feel like your photography doesn't match your bio. That's all stuff I can help with, too.
An entry point service that I actually offer for design firms is brand voice and copywriting services to help them figure out the way they want to be talking externally on all of their platforms. And I can do firm bios, principal bios, and help with any content on the website to make sure that the message you're conveying is the right one and feels on brand and accurate, and then we can also talk about photography. And honestly, hiring a stylist can really help your photography match the level of work that you're seeing when you walk into that beautiful project.
Desi: Mmm, I love that. Yeah, and I think that's something that's really unique about the way that your firm is structured. I haven't seen that really a lot where there's the PR aspect, but then also the ability to help with the messaging. I want to go back to just return on investment. So when we think about, okay, this is the result or results that I want to create, you mentioned that you advise people to look for, does this person help you track the KPIs? So tell me a little bit about what are some of the key metrics that you might want to be tracking, or how do you look at is this investment something that I am getting a return on?
Allison: Yes. So in the PR space, we like to joke that PR is both an art and a science. As kind of creative and mercurial as it is, we do like to try and put numbers behind it to actually make it make sense. So there are a couple of key metrics that I like to measure in order to make sure my programs are effective for clients. The number one metric is how many placements are we getting per month. So I keep a press tracker for my clients where I track all of the placements, and then at the end of the month, we do a share out of like, okay, you were mentioned in these three national outlets this month. That's amazing. You got two home tours and a quote in AD Pro this month. That's amazing. And so the number of placements and the kind of cadence of how often you're being mentioned is metric number one.
And then metric number two is how many people are seeing those placements. And so that is calculated by looking at the reach of the publication. So for print magazines, that's going to be the publication circulation, how many subscribers do they have? And then for digital media, that's going to be the unique monthly visitors or UVM. So I tally up those numbers, and if you're getting national placements, that number will be in the millions on a monthly basis. I've had clients that are in the billions of impressions by the end of the year, depending on how robust their PR program is.
So we definitely want to make sure we're looking at the numbers and making sure that there's growth year over year and any type of program as well. When you're starting out, you may not necessarily set KPIs for the first, you know, six months because you want to kind of establish a baseline, but then definitely after that, you want to make sure you're trying to improve every next cycle. So it's really important to be tracking all of those numbers and making sure that you're experiencing growth, especially if you have like a really big announcement or, say, for example, you have a book launch or a design shop opening or a collection launch. That should be a moment where you're expecting those numbers to increase even more because you have a timely hook that PR can really jump off of.
Desi: Okay, that makes sense. And just in terms of timeline, I like to think about when is it that I'm going to re-decide on something. So I decide the strategy, I decide what I'm going to track, and then I give myself a period of time for the strategy to show what it's going to show, and then make a new decision. And so I'm thinking about that in terms of tracking the PR. You know, how much runway do you need to give? You said six months to get a little traction, but then like how long do you think is worthwhile to say, I'm going to go all in on this and then look at really what it's producing for me?
Allison: I would say definitely six months minimum is the ideal, and that's partly because print placements take so long to run. If you're thinking about it, a print magazine runs every month or every two months. So, from the time it takes to introduce your firm to the editors to the time it takes for them to have a story that you would be a fit for, and then the magazine comes out four or five months later, that's a pretty long runway. So in an ideal case scenario, you're investing in PR for a year and then re-evaluating what it's doing for your firm.
But I would say definitely minimum six months to see traction. I do offer contracts that are starting at four months, and that's just because digital placements can come out a little bit faster. That also can be appropriate if you have more of like a project level of work rather than a retainer, and a project type of initiative would be something that has a specific start and end date. So, for example, a book launch or a collection launch, something that has a timely start and end date, not just ongoing project pitching and things like that.
Desi: Okay, got it. What do you think about tracking projects that come to you from a consumer standpoint based on PR? Tell me a little bit more about how you see press impacting a designer's ability to get bigger and better projects, and a little bit about that. Because I know that's a thing that most designers are always looking to level up, and I know sometimes people see PR as a way to do that. Others say it can be a little bit challenging, and I know it's also a little bit hard to track. So give me your take on that.
Allison: Yes, it is hard to track, and I think that can be a big roadblock for firms that are debating if there is ROI with PR or not. I would say that regional media can sometimes be easier to track because you're getting press coverage in the market where you already have a presence, and it's something that's a little bit more conversational, like, oh, did you see the home tour in XYZ regional magazine? But national media is how your firm is going to start expanding your visibility and get those bigger, juicier projects.
So I would say that's really important if you're looking to up-level your firm and perhaps expand out of the market that you're already in. Say you want to start taking on more vacation home projects or just those bigger ticket projects that are, you know, frankly, more lucrative for your firm. National media is going to be really helpful for you to get in front of those sort of bigger fish homeowners. But that said, it is, as you've mentioned, Desi, very hard to draw the exact correlation between how to have those two things work together.
I would say that one thing that's a little easier to tell is when you're getting digital press placements, you can see if there are any bumps in your site traffic from the articles linking back to your website. So I would definitely say that again, before you hire PR, make sure you have a website that you're really proud of so that you can be tracking on the back end how that's working for you.
Desi: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And, you know, as I'm hearing, hearing you say some of these things, it's like, what's the balance between perfectionism? Because I know so many of my designer clients struggle with that, of like making sure you have the website where you want it to be, making sure the photography is where it needs to be, making sure you've got your bio where it needs to be.
What would you say is from your objective perspective? Because sometimes it's, it's difficult to see ourselves. I like to say, it's hard to read the label from inside the bottle. So sometimes, do you ever just hop on a call with designers and they can get like real talk of, am I over-perfecting this? Am I thinking I'm never meeting my own like benchmarks, but actually I'm ready? Or is it like, yeah, I'll be really kind and say, nope, you need to get these things taken care of before you're ready to actually invest in this.
Allison: It's so funny you say this, Desi, because I feel like I've actually had more of the opposite lately with designers. Like I've had some calls with designers who are getting the regional press, they have a strong web presence, and they're considering if it makes sense for them to invest in PR to get more national press, but they're not quite ready to pull the trigger yet. And I think there's sort of a comfort level with how much risk you want to take that you have to evaluate. I know you have an episode, I think on that too. But I would say if you think you're ready, you probably are. And if you're not sure, your publicist should be able to tell you.
Again, I typically am looking at designers who have already had some level of success with regional media, and that's a really good benchmark for me to see, okay, you have the good photography, you have your kind of basic narrative down, we're at a point where I can work with you to help you break into national. But I also think that as brands, we all evolve constantly. I'm going through a rebrand myself after only a year of being in business, and I don't think you should have that stop you from trying and seeing where you land. You know, I think we're all entrepreneurs here, and at some point, you have to give something a shot and take a little bit of a risk and see if it's worth it before you can necessarily evaluate.
And so again, I would not invest in PR if you're at a point where you really need new projects. PR is not going to be an immediate driver of new business for you. It's going to help that, but again, the results are not apples to apples. So you need to kind of already be in a good, stable place with your business where you feel comfortable investing in PR, and you're really just trying to get those better projects or projects in new markets or kind of expand the way your profile is positioned instead of necessarily like just getting your foot in the door.
Desi: Yeah. Okay. I'm really glad we talked about that because I think that is something that, you know, whether you have some perfectionistic tendencies at play, which I think so many of us in these creative fields do, or even just it's like we are constantly evolving as business owners. So by the time you get the new website, sometimes we're already like in the process of becoming that next version of ourselves, so we get in that habit of like, oh, well, I'll wait until then before I take action on this. And I think just having someone to reflect back clearly, like, yes, this is the time, this is how the world sees you. And that's a little bit different from maybe where you've mentally caught up to how you see yourself. It can be so helpful to have another person give you that reassurance or just validation that you feel shaky giving yourself. So, thanks for going there with me.
Allison: Totally.
Desi: Okay, so we've covered some really good things. Is there anything that you for sure wanted to make sure we talked about today that we haven't gotten to yet?
Allison: I don't think we've talked about what a good PR program sort of basis should look like yet.
Desi: Okay, so tell me, what does it look like?
Allison: So, I think basically for PR, there are a lot of different things that you can add on and a lot of avenues you can explore. There are awards, speaking opportunities, brand partnerships, you know, there's, there are tons of different ways that PR can support your business, but I would say a core program would be a mix of project pitching and expert insights opportunities. So project pitching is what we all love and dream of, that big, beautiful feature of your project in AD in print, flipping through the pages, seeing that gorgeous project featured, that's kind of what every designer dreams of.
So that's definitely a big part of a PR program, but those types of pitches take forever, and Desi, I mean a really long time, like months, sometimes over a year before those projects can come out. And that's also your very best work. That's like your best project you've ever done. So that can be kind of disheartening when you're waiting so long for your press placement to come out because, again, those types of press placements need to be exclusive. So you really can't publish those photographs anywhere else. And that's again, something your publicist can help advise on.
But in addition to project pitching, that's why we also have the expert insights opportunities. So on a much more regular basis, journalists will be writing roundups of like seven top green rooms to draw inspiration from or, you know, the top pink colors, the top shades of white pink color. And so different designers can comment on this, and that's something that you can submit to a lot more regularly and kind of have a lot more consistent press coverage on a monthly and sometimes even weekly basis for your firm. And so there are other ways to get in AD, and all of these big national outlets, besides having that one huge project that you've invested in all of the project photography for, get placed. You can get in a lot more often than that with this expert insights track. So I like to pair the two tracks so we have the big amazing feature stories as well as that kind of more consistent coverage coming out.
Desi: Yeah, and I think that speaks so well to how do you leverage the press that you're getting or how do you use PR to create content for whether it's your newsletter, your social media, all of those things. So you've got more of that popcorn effect versus, I don't know, what would be the other food? What would be something that would take a really long time and be massive? I don't know.
Allison: Christmas dinner.
Desi: Yes, Christmas dinner. Yes. You've got Christmas dinner, and you've got popcor,n and both are amazing. So I love that you pair that together. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Allison. This has really been great. Can you take a sec and tell everyone where they can find you if they want to check you out, if they want to reach out, talk to you about what it might like, what it might be like to work together?
Allison: Yes, please reach out to me. My Instagram is Allison Hay PR. I am working on a website redesign. My current URL is hayitsallison.com, but I'm migrating to allisonhaypr.com. We'll see if that's out by the time this podcast episode comes out. And you can also email me at alison@heyitsallison.com.
Desi: All right, perfect. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in. I think this has been a great one. And I'll be back next week with a brand new episode. It is going to be the second-to-last truth in the What I Know for Sure CEO Summer School series. And this truth is diving into how to solve the right problems in your business so you're not spinning your wheels and spending unnecessary time, energy, and money in the business.
So make sure you're subscribed to the show, and we'll make sure that gets put right in your feed. Until then, I'm wishing you a beautiful week.
Thanks for joining me for this week's episode of The Interior Design Business CEO. If you want more tips, tools and strategies visit DesiCreswell.com, where you’ll get immediate access to a variety of free resources to help you take what you learn on the podcast and put it into action. And if you love what you’re hearing, be sure to rate, review, and follow the show wherever you listen to podcasts to ensure you never miss an episode. I’ll talk to you next week.
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